Seeking help to trace Grandad McNamee

Mike,

Subscription Site www.rootsireland.ie has the following:

Michael McNamee baptised in the parish of Lurgan, Co. Cavan October 23rd 1853. Father - Johnny - Mother: Mary Soraghan

Michael McNamee baptised in the parish of Ballintrain, Co. Tyrone on May 24th 1853. Father - John - Mother: Mary McCullagh..

The surname "McNamee" can be found in various parts of Ireland.

You should check your grandfather's employment record for any further clues.

Regards,

Mike: Transcription of Marriage record of Michael McNamee and Ann Carr - Wigan - 1878.

This was copied from the local press.

What information have you on Anne Carr?

Regards,

Thanks for taking the time to respond and help further, it is much appreciated.

I have done numerous searches on Irish records but nothing that I have turned up so far provide me with any confidence to claim anyone discovered as my own. Difficult for me as I don't really know the system in Ireland and as I only have limited information. I still want to try and track John/Michael McNamee but is Carr a less common name in Ireland? Would it be easier to try and track where in Ireland Peter Carr was born (between 1821 & 1823?).

As regards Ann Carr:

• Ann Carr (my Great Grandma) was born Q1 1854 in Wigan, Lancs.
• According to the 1851, 1861 & 1871 England census her siblings were (Catherine - born 1850, Peter - Q3 1856, James - 1859(?), Bridget - 1859(?), James - 1862(?) did the James born in 1859 die and was this a separate James? and Thomas - born 1867(?). All of them were born in England and all likely to be born in Wigan - all the census show them as living in Wigan.
• Ann's dad was Peter Carr (born in Ireland between 1821? & 1823? listed in English Census 1851, 1861, 1871 & 1881 all as living in Wigan and he died Q4 1888 in Wigan aged 66. Various jobs held as a labourer)
• Ann's mum was Margaret (born in Ireland between 1825? & 1830? listed in English Census 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881 & 1891 all as living in Wigan and she was last noted in the Wigan Observer in 1895 and I can't see her in the 1901 census. .
• Peter & Margaret married on 14/10/1849 in Wigan (Peter quoted as 26 and Margaret - nee Gaffney - as 22). Both of their dads were stated as being called Peter. One of the witnesses was Catherine Gaffney

Best wishes & thanks again

Mike Tatton

According to MacLysaght's Surnames of Ireland, the MacNamee surname (in Irish, Mac Conmeadha, meaning "son/descendant of the hound of Meath") originated in what is now County Tyrone, so that seems to be the best place to look. As it happens, within County Tyrone there are two different townlands named "Leitrim", so the references you found may have been to the townland where the parents were both born (and not to County Leitrim). If you go to this link, you can see both of those townlands in a list, with links to more info about each townland: https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/

The first Leitrim townland is in the parish of Termonamongan, and the second is in the parish of Donaghedy (the names of the civil parishes and Catholic parishes happen to be the same, which is not always the case). Unfortunately, the Catholic parish records which are available online for each of those parishes start at dates which are probably just a bit too late for Michael or Margaret, but birth years were often vague from that time period, and even if they aren't shown, you might find siblings of Michael and/or Margaret who were baptized later, helping to determine whether the locations are right. The parish records can be accessed at these links:

Termonamongan: https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0342

Donaghedy: https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0361

Hi Kevin,

Sorry for delay in responding - I have been away all week.

I am really grateful for the advice here especially as my post has slipped down the timeline now.

I will use your guidance and try to do more research based on your sources.

As an aside I have just discovered that there was/is(?) an Irish tradition on the way to name their children.(1st son after dad's dad, 2nd son after mum's dad, 1st daughter after mum's mum & 2nd daughter after dad's mum etc). My Great grandad (Michael McNamee) named his first two sons John and Peter. From Michael's marriage Cert to Ann Carr (Wigan 1878) I know that Michael's dad was indeed called John and, based on various census, Ann's dad was Peter. These census also show that Ann's mother was called Margaret.

I haven't been able to identify the name of Michael's mum but I know that Michael and Ann had two daughters (twins) which they named Margaret and Maria. So, as Margaret also fits the "tradition", maybe Maria was also named after Michael's mum?

If this is the case then perhaps it may help if I look for a Michael McNamee born to parents named John and Marie (or Mary?) - between 1855 -1859 ish. Or a John McNamee getting married to a Maria (or Mary?) within a 5/10 year period leading up to Michael being born?

What do you think?

Best wishes and thanks again

Mike T

In general, the naming patterns which were observed in Ireland, especially in rural areas, were as follows:

• First born son named after his father's father
• Second born son named after his mother's father
• Third born son named after his father
• Fourth born son named after his father's oldest brother
• Fifth born son named after his father's 2nd oldest brother or his mother's oldest brother

• First born daughter named after her mother's mother
• Second born daughter named after her father's mother
• Third born daughter named after her mother
• Fourth born daughter named after her mother's oldest sister
• Fifth born daughter named after her mother's 2nd oldest sister or her father's oldest sister

Keep in mind, however, that: (1) not everyone followed this pattern; (2) if you have records which appear to indicate that the pattern wasn't followed, you may be missing information about an elder child whose naming would complete the pattern; and (3) there may be a child who died young, whose records you don't have (although, if a child died very young, the next child of that gender might be given the same name).

Thanks again Kevin, any help is always gratefully received.

Funnily enough I believe that one of my other Irish Great great grandparents (Peter and Margaret Carr) may have named two of their boys James. The first James was listed as their 4th child in the 1861 English census aged 2 and the second as the 5th child aged 9 in the 1871 census.

Very best wishes

Mike T