Searching for James Gilbride, Ardpatrick

Hi Vicky,

Do you know if James Gilbride was Roman Catholic, or one of the Protestant denominations? Also, do you know the names of his parents, and do you know if he had brothers or sisters. If he did have siblings, what were their names?

Thank you.

Dave Boylan

Hi Dave

Thank you for your time looking into this.  Unfortunately I don't have any details of his parents or siblings.  He may have had a sister called Jane though to be honest I can't remember where I saw this fact.  His descendants were actually Salvation Army so I'm guessing his background would have been Protestant, I don't know of any Catholic family links.

It's a shame so many records were destroyed.  He got married in either Barbados or Canada so I've tried to find a marriage certificate without success; I was hoping to at least get his father's name from that.  I was encouraged by the fact that Ardpatrick seems to be quite a small place but because he left at such a young age it may not be possible to discover any more but I had to try.

I have another family link to Ireland from my paternal grandmother's side of the family in Dublin so I will do another post about that.

Thanks again 

Vicky

 

 

 

Hi Vicky,

Many thanks for your reply with the added information.

You had mentioned a Canada connection for James Kilbride, and with that knowledge I wanted to see if I could find any records for him in Canada.

The search proved successful as I uncovered the baptism transcriptions and copies of the original baptism records for two of his and Rebecca Charge’s children. These are the baptisms for James Gilbride and also for Mary Jane Gilbride.

The baptism records also include the dates of birth for the children.

These were found in the Drouin Collection at Ancestry.com.  Both children were baptized in the Notre Dame Cathedral in Quebec. Notre Dame is a Catholic Cathedral.

Below is the transcription for James “Gelbride,” who was born on 6 September 1851 and baptized on 9 September 1851. His mother Rebecca’s maiden name is transcribed as “Charpy,” likely due to the handwriting and also due to the baptism being recorded in cursive French. 

The transcription follows:

Quebec, Canada, Vital and Church Records (Drouin Collection), 1621-1968

Name James Gelbride
Baptism Age 0
Record Type Baptême (Baptism)
Birth Date 6 sept. 1851 (6 Sep 1851)
Baptism Date 9 sept. 1851 (9 Sep 1851)
Baptism Place Quebec City, Québec (Quebec), Canada
Baptism Church    Notre-Dame; Québec
Place of Worship or Institution Notre-Dame
Father James Gelbride
Mother Rebecca Charpy

Source Citation
Institut Généalogique Drouin; Montreal, Quebec, Canada; Drouin Collection; Author: Gabriel Drouin, Comp.
----

Attached to this reply is copy of the original baptism record for James, which gives the additional information that his godparents were David Gilbride and Ann Connolly.

David may have been the father Jame’s brother, or perhaps cousin. Ann Connolly may have been a relative or perhaps Rebecca’s good friend.

Next is the baptism transcription for Mary Jane Gilbride, who was born on 14 August 1853, and baptized on 14 August 1853. That Mary Jane was baptized on the same day she was born may be an indication that she had suffered post partem complications. But that’s only a guess. See the Transcription below:

Quebec, Canada, Vital and Church Records (Drouin Collection), 1621-1968

Name Mary Jane Gilbride
Gender Femme (Female)
Baptism Age 0
Record Type Baptême (Baptism)
Birth Date 14 août 1853 (14 Aug 1853)
Baptism Date 14 août 1853 (14 Aug 1853)
Baptism Place Quebec City, Québec (Quebec), Canada
Baptism Church    Notre-Dame; Québec
Place of Worship or Institution    Notre-Dame
Father James Gilbride
Mother Rebecca Charge

Source Citation
Institut Généalogique Drouin; Montreal, Quebec, Canada; Drouin Collection; Author: Gabriel Drouin, Comp.
----

A copy of the original baptism record is attached. The name of Mary Jane’s godfather appears to be Francis Crook, but I could be mistaken about his last name. The name of the godmother is Catherine Hanley.

Vicky, do have any records showing that Rebecca Charge was a Roman Catholic? 

If she was Catholic, and married a Protestant, she would have had to bring up her children as Catholic, according to Catholic Church doctrine prevalent at that time.

Some time after the birth of Mary Jane in 1853, the Gilbride family, or at leased Rebecca and the Children, sailed for England, as 34 year old Rebecca, 9 year old James, and 3 year old David were recorded in the 1861 census, living in 19 Leon Street, Chester. Rebecca’s daughter Mary Jane is not in the household. 

The census comes from Ancestry.com

The 1861 census shows that Rebecca was a “Serjeant’s-Wife,” and that she was employed as a “Dress Maker.’ She was born in Barbados. James was born in Quebec, and David in Chester. 

Your records show that James and Rebecca also had a son named Thomas Henry Gilbride, who was born in 1855. Thomas and his older sister Mary Jane are not in the household with their mother and siblings, which means they were in another household, perhaps visiting relatives when the 1861 census was taken on 7 April.

I searched for Mary Jane and Thomas in the 1861 census and found them living in the household of their uncle, 56 year old Thomas Lamb, and Thomas’s 44 year old wife Jane Ann. Their address is 4 St. Anne Street South, Chester.

Mary Jane Gilbride, age 7, was born in Quebec and her 5 year old brother Thomas H. Gilbride, in Derbyshire. 

Thomas Lamb is described as a “Gunmaker; Chelsea Pensioner.” He was born in Liverpool. Your records also shows that James Gilbride was a Chelsea Pensioner. 

No occupation is recorded for Thomas’s wife Jane Ann, but like, Rebecca Charge Gilbride, Jane Ann was born in Barbados. I am wondering if Jane Ann Lamb and Rebecca Charge Gilbride were sisters, which means the Gilbride children in the household were related to Thomas Lamb by marriage, and to Jane Ann Lamb by blood.

Also in the Lamb household is a 15 year old “Servant,” Mary Ann Lee, born in Cheshire.

The following, from FamilySearch, is a Chelsea Pensioner index for a Thomas Lamb, who is recorded as being an Armourer Sergeant, born in Lancashire in 1809. In spite of that, the index shows that Thomas was 1 month old, though the exact date of the record is not given:

The Chelsea Pension index for Thomas Lamb is below:

Pension • United Kingdom, Chelsea Pensioners' Service Records, 1760-1913

Name Thomas Lamb
Age 1 months
Birth Date 1809
Birthplace Lancashire
Military Final Rank ARMOURER SERGT
Event Type Pension
Event Date from 5 March 1760 to 1913
Event Place Liverpool, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom
Box Number 1498
Document Type D
Series Name 2
Number of Images 11

"United Kingdom, Chelsea Pensioners' Service Records, 1760-1913", , FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5C3-7GR : Sun Mar 10 07:05:39 UTC 2024), Entry for Thomas Lamb, from 5 March 1760 to 1913.
---

The 1861 census shows that Thomas Lamb was born in Liverpool. Liverpool was in the historic county of Lancashire. The census also shows his occupation was a “Gunmaker,” which also could be an armourer. Wikipedia describes an armourer as someone who “has some duties resembling a gunsmith.” See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armourer#United_Kingdom

At age 56 in 1861, Thomas would have been born in 1805 rather than 1809, but ages in these 19th century records were not always accurate.

Vicky, in your research into the Gilbride and Charge families, have you come across the name “Lamb,” at all in Cheshire?

In the 1871 census 47 year old Rebecca Gilbride is shown to be married, but her husband James isn’t in the household with her. Her occupation is “Dress Maker.” She was born in the West Indies. She and her children, 20 year old James, 16 year old Thomas H., and 13 year old David are living in 8 Lyon Street, Chester.

In the 1881 census 59 year old Rebecca Gilbride and her sons Thomas Hy., and David are still living in 8 Lyon Street, Chester. Rebecca is shown to be a married “Dressmaker,” born in Barbados. 

James’s occupation is “Fireman on Railway.” But, his place of birth is recorded as Derbyshire, Derby, rather than Quebec, or Canada.

Thomas’s occupation is, “Baker.” He was born in Derbyshire, Derby.

David is in school, as he is recorded as a “Scholar.” He was born in Cheshire, Cheshire.

As of 1881 we know that Rebecca is still married, which means her husband James was still alive when the 1881 England census was enumerated on 3 April of that year. 

I also located Rebecca’s son, 28 year old James Gilbride in the 1881 census. His occupation is “Engine Driver.” His place of birth is Canada.

His wife is 28 year old Elizabeth, born in Chester. James and Elizabeth’s daughter is 7 month old Annie R., born in Chester. The address of the family is 6 North Street, Chester.

I didn’t find Rebecca Gilbride in the 1891 census, but did locate her death index at the General Register Office (GRO) website. Her death was recorded in the Chester Registration District in the December quarter 1886. The December quarter includes the months of October, November, and December. At the time of death she was 60 years old. You probably already have Rebecca’s death record, but the death index from the GRO is below:

Name: GILBRIDE, REBECCA    
Age at Death (in years): 60  
GRO Reference: 1886 December Quarter in CHESTER  
Volume 08A Page 259
----

You can search the GRO’s birth and death indexes after you have registered. Registration is free: 
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

I also found Rebecca at the Find A Grave website. She died on October 24, 1886 and is buried in the Overleigh Old Cemetery, Chester, Cheshire West and Chester Unitary Authority, Cheshire, England: https://tinyurl.com/2hpz3d98

If you enlarge the gravestone, you’ll notice that her husband James is not buried with her. 

I next wanted to see if I could find Thomas and Jane Lamb in 1871 census. Previous to this search I had looked for their civil registration marriage index at the FreeBMD website but didn’t find it. 

Civil registration of births, marriages, and death were recorded in England and Wales by the British government beginning with the 3rd quarter of 1837, that is, July, August, and September of that year. I didn’t find their marriage index, which is unfortunate, as the marriage index would have provided Jane Ann’s maiden name. 

Because Jane was born in Barbados, where Rebecca Charge Gilbride was also born, there is that possibility that Rebecca and Jane were sisters, as mentioned earlier.

Thomas Lamb and Jane Ann may have been married before the start of civil registration, or its possible they were not in England when they married. 

Concerning further research into the Gilbride genealogy, if you live in the UK, have you thought about visiting the National Archives in Kew, Surrey? The National Archives has Armed Forces Service records which may have more information about James Gilbride’s service beyond his Chelsea Pension record, and beyond service records held by the subscription website, Find My Past. 

Go to the following National Archives links to view information about British army soldiers who served up to 1913:

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-gu…

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-gu…

If you can’t get to the National Archives in Kew, you would have to hire a researcher to look for James Gilbride’s army service records. Go to the following for more information about independent researchers:

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/paying-for-…

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/irlist/default.asp?action=1&slctcat…

Going back to records in Ireland, I looked for the Gilbride surname in two Irish records. Specifically, I wanted to see if the name Gilbride had been recorded in Ardpatrick, or in any County Limerick townland.

The first and earliest of these records is the Tithe Applotment Books, available to search for free at the National Archives of Ireland website: 
https://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp

The Tithe applotments were recorded in the 32 counties of Ireland from 1823 to 1837. This record mainly pertains those who owned, or leased agricultural land.

I didn’t find anyone named Gilbride owning or leasing agricultural land in Ardpatrick, or anywhere in County Limerick.

You can see those who farmed land in Ardpatrick, Civil parish of Kilquane, at the following National Archives of Ireland links. The years of the records are 1832 and 1834: https://tinyurl.com/ed75cnek and https://tinyurl.com/3v8zxd6b

In your research, have you come across any of the names of those recorded in Ardpatrick as found in the Tithe Applotment Books?

The Tithe Applotment Books show the name Gilbride recorded mainly in counties Leitrim and Mayo, which are not in close proximity to County Limerick.

But, the Tithe Applotment Books online are not complete, because there are many errors and omissions that can drive researchers to despair when looking for pre-1850 records in Ireland. 

A second record I looked at was an Irish property tax record called Griffiths Valuation, available to research for free at the Ask About Ireland website: https://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/

Griffiths valuation was enumerated in the 32 counties of Ireland between 1847 and 1864. The valuation for County Limerick was completed by 1852.

No Gilbrides are found in Ardpatrick, or anywhere in County Limerick in Griffiths Valuation. The majority of the Gilbrides in Griffiths Valuation were recorded in counties Leitrim and Roscommon. 

Vicky, I wish I could have found more information online about James Gilbride in Ireland. But this may be one of those brick walls whereby you’ll have to go offline, to see what records, if any, exist for him in Ireland, Canada, or England. Perhaps his army service record, which may (or may not) record the names of his parents.

The other option would be DNA testing to see if there is anyone else who is descended from James Gilbride and Rebecca Charge.

With Kind Regards,

Dave

SOURCES

Ancestry.com: Drouin Collection
Ancestry.com: 1861 Census
Wikipedia
Ancestry.com: 1871 Census
Ancestry.com: 1881 Census
General Register Office (GRO) UK
Find A Grave
National Archives, Kew, Surrey: GRO birth and death records
FreeBMD
National Archives of Ireland: Tithe Applotment Books
Ask About Ireland: Griffiths Valuation

Hi Dave

Thank you so much for spending time researching this for me.  I'm very grateful and it's appreciated.

What a lot of information in your reply!  I will go through it all in some detail.  I already knew some of it but hadn't seen the baptism records of the children in Canada.  I know James met Rebecca in Barbados whilst serving in the army and he also served in Canada hence the birth records. The catholic baptism information is interesting and another angle for me to consider.

I can clarify a couple of things; Mary Jane Gilbride who was baptised on the day she was born survived.. She married and had children and died in 1928.  Also Jane Ann Charge (married to Thomas Lamb) was indeed Rebecca's sister. My son found a newspaper article regarding the Gilbride family and it confirmed that the two sisters married servicemen from the same UK regiment. It's therefore likely that they also married in Canada.

James and Rebecca's son Thomas Henry who you mention was my great grandfather.  He was indeed a baker and born in Derby. The news article I mentioned above was mostly about his son, also called James who died in WW1 at the age of 21.

I've done a lot of research on other branches of my family tree but it is James and Rebecca who intrigue me the most, partly because of the Barbados connection but also because James drops off the radar.  As you mention Rebecca is mentioned in a couple of Census records as married (not divorced or widowed) and also Head of House.  So where was James?!  Also intriguing is the fact that she was buried with her son, daughter in law and grandson and again no mention of James.

I found probate details of a James Gilbride who died in Flintshire in 1905.  The beneficiary was given as Jane Gilbride.  Although Gilbride is a fairly common name in Ireland and Scotland, that's not the case in England and Flintshire is literally just over the border from Chester and is in fact where I was born.  So I wondered if that could be him but there's no way to be sure.

I will go over all the information you've given me very carefully.  Again, thank you for your time, I never expected such an informative response.

Best wishes

Vicky

 

 

Hello Vicky,

Many thanks again for your reply. I am surprised these days when I do receive a reply, as many people don't take the time to respond after I've posted information about their ancestors to the Ireland Reaching Out message board. I guess it's the sign of the times.

Before posting the last reply, I had looked for James Gilbride's death index at the FreeBMD as well as the GRO website. I discounted all of the indexes, as the age at the time death, did not correspond with Jame’s year of birth, or approximate year of birth in 1827.

I had looked for his death index from the year 1880 to 1927, when James would have been approximately 100 years old. 

The earliest death was recorded in the Burton Registration District in the December quarter of 1896. Jame’s age at death was 54, placing his year of birth in 1842

Another death index shows that a James Quinton Gilbride died at the age of 16 in 1899. His death was recorded in the Chester Registration District. He may have been a relative of your James Gilbride. More on James Quinton Gilbride later.

I also had uncovered the index for James Gilbride who died in 1905 at the age of 42. His death was recorded in the Holywell Registration District, which covers towns and civil parishes in Flintshire. This is the James Gilbride you had mentioned finding in the probate records. This couldn't be your great great grandfather. At age 42 in 1905, he would have been born in 1863, 36 years after your James was born, circa 1827. 

The England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations) record, from Ancestry.com, shows James was a bootmaker, whose wife, as you had mentioned, was Jane. See the attachment labeled, “Probate.” 

I looked for James's marriage to Jane in the GRO indexes, but didn't find it.  
 
I also found a death index is for James Gilbride who died in 1916 at the age of 21.

A James Gilbride died in 1922 at the age of 70, placing his year of birth in 1852. His death was recorded in the Hawarden district, which covered towns and civil parishes in Flintshire.

The last death index I located is for a James Gilbride who died at the age of 57 in 1925. He would have been born in 1868. As you can see, none of these deaths come close to referring to your James Gilbride, based on their ages at death for the years they died.

See the death indexes from FreeBMD below:

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page 

Death December Quarter 1896   

James Gilbride     
At at Death 54     
Registration District: Burton     
Volume 6b    
Page 271   

Burton upon Trent spans the boundaries of the counties of Derbyshire and Staffordshire
----      

Death September Quarter 1899   

James Quinton Gilbride     
At at Death 16     
Registration District: Chester         
Volume 8a     
Page 296 

The district Chester spans the boundaries of the counties of Flintshire and Cheshire.
----      

Death June Quarter 1905   

James Gilbride         
At at Death 42     
Registration District: Holywell     
Volume 11b    
Page 170 

The district Holywell is in the county of Flintshire.
----      

Death September Quarter 1916   

James Gilbride         
At at Death 21    
Registration District: Northampton     
Volume 3b    
Page 83 

The district Northampton is in the county of Northamptonshire.
----      

Death September Quarter 1922   

James Gilbride         
At at Death 70     
Registration District: Hawarden     
Volume 11b    
Page 262 

The district Hawarden is in the county of Flintshire.
----  

Death June Quarter 1925 
  
James Gilbride         
At at Death 57     
Registration District: Birmingham N.     
Volume 6d    
Page: 439 

The district Birmingham N. is an alternative name for Birmingham North and it is in the county of Warwickshire

Source: FreeBMD
----

I was curious about James Quinton Gilbride, who died at the age of 16 in 1899. I looked for his birth index at the GRO website, as the GRO website generally includes the maiden name of the child's mother, whereas the FreeBMD website provides the maiden name of the child's mother for those births beginning in the September quarter of 1911.

The GRO birth index shows that the maiden name of James Quinton Gilbride's mother was Davies:

Name: GILBRIDE, JAMES  QUINTON    
Mother's Maiden Surname: DAVIES  
GRO Reference: 1882 December Quarter in CHESTER  
Volume 08A  Page 385

General Register Office (GRO), Southport, Merseyside
----

I had also found the GRO birth and death indexes for your great grandfather Thomas Gilbride, and his younger brother David, but didn't include these records in the last reply, because I wanted to concentrate mainly on records pertaining to your great great grandfather James, such as his marriage to Rebecca Charge, and his death. 

The indexes show that Thomas Gilbride was born in 1855 and that he died in 1930 at the age of 74.

His brother David was born in 1858, and died in 1882 at the age 24:

Name: GILBRIDE, THOMAS    
Mother's Maiden Surname: CHARGE  
GRO Reference: 1855 December Quarter in DERBY  
Volume 07B Page 346

Name: GILBRIDE, THOMAS  HENRY
Age at Death (in years): 74  
GRO Reference: 1930 September Quarter in WIRRAL  
Volume 08A Page 416
----

Name: GILBRIDE, DAVID 
Mother's Maiden Surname: CHARGE  
GRO Reference: 1858 June Quarter in GREAT BOUGHTON  
Volume 08A Page 358

Name: GILBRIDE, DAVID    
Age at Death (in years): 24  
GRO Reference: 1882 December Quarter in CHESTER  
Volume 08A Page 271

General Register Office (GRO), Southport, Merseyside
----

After you mentioned in your latest reply that Thomas Henry Gilbride was your great grandfather, I looked for his FreeBMD marriage index, and found that Thomas Henry Gilbride married Sarah Elizabeth Kenyon in 1882, as noted in this marriage index below:

Marriage December Quarter 1882

Thomas Henry Gilbride               
Sarah Elizabeth Kenyon               
Registration District: Chester     
Volume 8a    
Page 584

Source: FreeBMD
----

In going back to your first message to Find My Past on 13 August, you had said that you thought that James Gilbride was originally from Scotland, but that his Chelsea Pension record states he was from Ardpatrick, Limerick. I am now wondering if it's possible that the person who recorded James in the Chelsea Pension record, was mistaken about County Limerick, as there is an Ardpatrick in Argyle, Scotland. See the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardpatrick,_Argyll

You can see the location of Ardpatrick from a Google Map: https://tinyurl.com/4xh49p56

Do you know if your Gilbrides in Scotland had lived in Argyle?

Vicky, you have the same challenge as I have. For over 30 years I have been looking for the birthplace of my great grandfather in County Cavan, Ireland, circa 1828. But in my case I have the name of his father and the first name of his mother, but not his mother's maiden name. I've been searching for this information but with no luck. I had even hired a professional genealogy company see if they could find his baptism record, but they had no luck either. Over the course of a year or two I had also written to every Catholic parish priest in County Cavan, to see if they could uncover his baptism record, but to no avail, after spending a considerable amount on postage.

In addition to that I spent countless days and hours over a period of several years in the local Family History Library, ordering microfilms of Cavan Catholic parish registers from the 1800s, but without success. 

I don't know if going to the National Archives in Kew, near London, is a viable option for you, or if hiring a professional researcher to look for James Gilbride's military service record is something you want to do, but his service record at least could tell you where and when he and Rebecca Charge were married, and when and where he died, that is, if he had died when he was in the military. Even at that there is no guarantee that you'll find this information in his military service record, but there's no saying what additional information you may uncover about him that you don't already have.

Thank you again for your replies Vicky. They're very much appreciated.

Dave

SOURCES

General Register Office (GRO) UK
FreeBMD
England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations) 
Wikipedia
Google Map

Hi again Dave

I'm so surprised that you often don't receive a reply after all the research you do for people  I actually felt that my responses to you were too lengthy, I know I ramble on a bit and by the very nature of ancestry and family history, it's only usually close family who have any interest.  In my case my parents and siblings all died quite young and family history was rarely mentioned.  My own sons are interested but are at the age when they're all busy with work and families of their own.

Thank you again for the additional work you have put in.  To be honest James was the only link to Scotland I know of and I think much of that was because my parents knew the name Gilbride is Scottish but of course it's also Irish in origin which they may not have realised.  It was pointless trying to find him in Scotland when I had no idea which part he may have been from.  I've now looked again using Argyle as a reference but still no luck.  What a tiny, out of the way place Ardpatrick in Scotland is!  

James Quinton Gilbride who you mention was James and Rebecca's grandson.  He is buried with Rebecca and his parents, James and Elizabeth Ann (nee Davies).  The custom of naming children after their parents can complicate things and you have to keep an eye on the dates!  It occurred to me that maybe James and Rebecca were separated which would probably not have been looked on favourably in the 19th century and would explain why he is never mentioned although she is described as married on the census records.

Thank you also for confirming that the James who died in Flintshire is not who I'm looking for.  It's as good to be able to discount a link as to find one.

I was interested that you have also had difficulties finding out about your great grandfather even with your undoubted experience and skills in this area.  I guess sometimes we just have to accept there are things we will never know unless some new piece of information appears.  I was excited when I saw the Limerick link; I have Irish links on my paternal grandmother's side, my third great grandparents were from Dublin so it would be nice to think there was a second Irish branch but who knows!  Unfortunately a trip to Kew is not on the cards at present (I'm in South Wales) or is hiring a professional. I am on a DNA site so maybe something will turn up.

I wish you luck with your own family research, every new piece of information adds a piece to the puzzle!

Vicky

 

 

Hi Vicky,

Thank you once again for your reply.

I suspect, like you do, that James and Rebecca had separated. In the 1851 census Rebecca is shown to be married, and a "Serjeant's Wife," but in the 1871 and 1881 census she is shown to be married and the head of the household. This is an indication that James may have abandoned his family sometime during the 10 year period between 1851 and 1861. It's also telling that he is not buried with his wife or other family members in the Overleigh Old Cemetery. 

Having been born around 1827, James would have been 54 years old by the time of the 1881 census, and so I am now wondering if he was still in the military by 1881. 

Then too not finding a death index for James at the GRO and FreeBMD websites, is an indication that he may not have died in England or Wales. Usually, deaths were reported to a local district registrar by a family member. If the person died in a hospital or workhouse, the death would be reported by the hospital or workhouse administrator. There is the slim possibility that James did die in England or Wales, and that his death was not reported to the registrar in the district where he had died.

If James did abandon his family, his own children may not have talked about it with their children and grandchildren because of the stigma attached to the abandonment. Hopefully that did not happen. 

Vicky, if you ever learn any thing further about James, please let me know. I'd be very interested in knowing the details.

With Kind Regards,

Dave 
 

Hi Dave

Just a couple more interesting facts before we leave James and Rebecca in peace.  

On their son David's birth certificate (1859) James' occupation is shown as Corporal whereas previously he was a Sergeant so it looks as though he may have been demoted for some reason.  I agree about the separation and maybe as he had served in different parts of the world he did indeed leave the UK and settle overseas.

When I was trying to find out about Rebecca in Barbados there were only two documents where she was named; a birth certificate for Ellen Matilda Charge (1847) and sadly also a death certificate for the same child who was only 11 days old.  In both cases Rebecca is named as the mother, no father mentioned and obviously the surname is her own.  It  may not be our Rebecca but it's quite a coincidence.  This was also found by a contributor to the Family Search site.  He was also the one who discovered the pension record and the Limerick link.  I have messaged him some time ago to try and make contact but he has not replied.

But enough for now.  I'll let you know if I discover any more.  It's been a joy to find someone with whom I could communicate regarding this.  Thank you again for your help and I wish you luck in your own family research.

All the best

Vicky