Reen Family Roots

Hello John,

I’m not related but found copies of the original baptisms for three children of John Reen and Anne Morgan. Did you know that William and Daniel were twins? The other child was Timothy.

I also uncovered a copy of the original church marriage record for John Reen and Anne Morgan.

Do you have copies of the original baptisms for the Reen children in Bandon, and a copy of the original Bandon Catholic Church marriage record for John and Anne?

If not I can get these records to you this weekend after I do a little more research to see if I can locate the baptisms of John Reen and Anne Morgan. I also want to look for other information about the Reen and Morgan families as well, and so I hope you don’t mind waiting until I get these records to you. Hopefully everything will be sent to you by this coming Sunday, 24 May if you do not already have them.

Kind Regards,

Dave Boylan

Dave,

Thanks.

Yes I knew William and Daniel were twins. I did not know they had a brother named Timothy. Do you have information as to when he was born?

I do not have original copies of baptisms of the children nor do I have original copies of the Church record of John and Ann's marraige.

I'd appreciate any information you can dig up on them all.

Again, thank you for looking into this for me.  I look forward to getting this information. 

Be safe. Be well.

Thom Skelly

 

Hello Thom,

My apologies for getting your first name wrong. Before responding I had just communicated with two people named John looking for more information about their ancestors. I had been communicating with them for the past several days, and so it was a force of habit. Again, my sincere apologies.

I'll start working on getting you the information I found this coming weekend, as I still want to see if I can find more information about William Reen and Johanna Burke in Bandon, Cork. This way I can get everything I found to you at one time, instead of piecemeal. Timothy was baptized, as you'll see, in 1856, while the twins were baptized in 1851. I don't why why there is a 4 year gap in the births/baptisms of William and Daniel, and the birth and baptism of Timothy. I still need to do a little more research to see if I can answer that question.

Thank you Thom for your quick response.

Dave

Dave,

No worries about my name, but thanks.

I saw a "Jeremiah" Reen on a document along with Timothy. I wonder if they are brothers of William and Daniel. It also could be that John Reen and Anne Morgan had their hands full with the twins so they waited a few years to add to the family.

I know Willam married Johanna Burke circa 1880 before coming to the States where my grandmother and her siblings were born. I believe Johanna's dad was Daniel Burke and her mom was Anne (Ann) Walsh. I believe Daniel Burkes' father was Charles Burke and mother was Julia Collins. That's as far as I get. I have not seen any primary documents of that fact. I do not know anything about the Walsh family. Nor do I know anything about the Morgan family. 

As an aside, I had the opportunity a long time ago of visiting Bandon. I went to the church, I believe St. Patrick's Church, and saw the document that showed John Reen and Anne Morgan's marraige. It turns out they were married 101 years to the day my mom (Reen descendant) and my dad were married. The women at the church was very kind and helpful. I wish I had taken more copious notes and had more time while I was in Bandon, but I was only there for a short time. Spent most of my time in Gallway and bicycled around the North of Ireland. It seems so long ago.

I really apprciate your gathering this information for me. It is very kind of you.

All the best to you and your.

Be safe. Be well

Thom

 

Hello Thom,

I found some interesting records about William Reen who married Johanna Burke in 1881, though I’m a little confused by the marriage record. I found their marriage at the free irishgenealogy.ie website, which shows that William’s father was not John Reen, but David Reen.

The marriage record can be accessed at: https://is.gd/xfgfwB

The marriage record for William Reen and Johanna Burke further shows they were married in the Roman Catholic Church of Bandon on 3 March 1881.At the time of the marriage both William and Johanna were of “full age,” while before marriage William had been a “Bachelor,” and Johanna a “Spinster.”

William’s occupation was “labourer.” His address at the time of marriage was Market Street, Bandon. To the right of his residence in the marriage record is the name of his father, “David Reen,” and in parenthesis is the word, “(Alive).” David’s occupation is “Labourer.”

No occupation is recorded for Johanna. Her residence was New Road, Bandon. Her father is “William Burke (Alive).” His occupation was “labourer.” Your information shows that Johanna’s father may have been Charles Burke, and her mother Julia Collins. Unfortunately civil marriage records do not provide the names of the mothers of the groom and bride.

The priest who married William and Johanna was John Fahy. The witnesses to the marriage were John O’Driscoll and Katie Regan.

Both William Reen and Johanna Burke signed the marriage register with an X, witnessed by John Fahy. This shows that William and Johanna could not read or write.

In further research I didn’t find a baptism record for a William Reen whose father was David. I looked for William Reen and his father David in the Bandon Catholic Church registers as well as registers for all of County Cork and the rest of Ireland, but did not find the connection.

The National Library of Ireland website shows that Bandon Catholic Parish baptisms commence on 5 January 1794 and are available until 29 January 1881, though there are gaps in the baptism registers.

Bandon Catholic Parish marriages are recorded from 29 July 1794 to 26 April, 1881, though there are gaps in these registers too.

Go to the following National Archives of Ireland link to see the availability of the Bandon Catholic Parish baptisms and marriages, and to also view a Catholic Map of the parishes and surrounding Catholic Parishes: https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0017

It’s possible that the baptism of a William Reen, son of David Reen, took place in a time period in which the Bandon parish baptism have a gap in them.

You also have information that Johanna’s parents may have been Charles Burke and Julia Collins, but the marriage record shows that Johanna’s father was William Burke, a labourer who was still alive at the time of the marriage.

I next found another very interesting record. This is for the birth of William and Johanna’s son William, who was born in the Bandon Workhouse on 13 November 1881. In the birth record his mother Johanna’s maiden name is spelled “Burk” The occupation of William’s father is “Army Pensioner.,” but in the marriage record his occupation was “Labourer.”

The person who reported William’s birth to the local registrar was the “Occupier,” that is, the head of the Bandon Workhouse. His name is Abram Haynes. The registrar, J.J. Welply, recorded William’s birth in the Bandon Registration District on 26 November 1881. William’s birth record is attached.

Unfortunately, no address is given for the father William Reen. The workhouse was the last place you wanted to live, let alone have your child, though there may have been a hospital located there as well. This also may mean that William and Johanna did not have any relatives in the Bandon area who could take Johanna in when she was having the baby. See William's birth record at: https://is.gd/eNhQ8Q

William's birth is number 440 in the birth register.

The other thing is, William was born less than 9 months after his parents married on 3 March of 1881. If Johanna went full term with the birth, William would have been born around December 3, 1881, rather than 13 November 1881.

This is an indication that William Reen and Johanna Burke married when they did so that their child would be born as close to 9 months after the marriage as possible. In other words, so that the child would not be born out of wedlock. I’ve seen many a Catholic baptism record where the priest recorded that the child he baptized was a “Bastard.” William and Johanna of course would not have wanted such an epithet applied to their child in a time period when there was a stigma attached to a child born out of wedlock.

Thom, this situation gets even more tragic, as I found little William Reen, “from Gallows Hill,” died in the Bandon Workhouse on 21 March 1883. See the death record at: https://is.gd/TeEeKe

William's death is at number 304 in the death register.

His age at the time of death was 1, but he would have turned 2 years old had he lived until November 13, 1883. The death record also shows that William was the “Son of an Army Pensioner.” The cause of death was “Broncho-Pneumonia. Certified.” The person who reported the death to the local registrar was Abram Haynes, who was also the informant at William’s birth in 1881. The registrar, J.J. Walply recorded the death in the Bandon Registration District on 2 April 1883.

From this death record it is feasible to speculate that the Bandon Workhouse also included a hospital where people could go for medical care, as William’s residence was Gallow’s Hill in Bandon, not the Union Workhouse. An Ordnance Survey Map of Bandon from the 1888 to 1913 time period shows that the Bandon Union Workhouse also maintained a separate Fever Hospital on the Grounds just to the east of the main building. This fever hospital may be where William was born in 1881 and died in 1883. The map comes from the GeoHive website, and can be accessed at: https://bit.ly/2Xoo0k7

Across town, in West Bandon, is Gallow’s Hill, where William had lived before being taken to the Union Workhouse. The death record does not mention the residence of either parent, but I suspect his mother Johanna may have been living with him. You can view a wide-shot of Gallows Hill, just below the Mill Pond in Bandon from the Ordnance Survey Map at: https://bit.ly/3gnFu99

For a closer view of Gallows Hill, Bandon, on the same Ordnance Survey Map, go to: https://bit.ly/2TxrfEB

For more information about the Bandon Union Workhouse, go to the following links: http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Bandon/ and https://is.gd/eGvaw1

Thom, so far in this research the records I’m finding do not match all the information you have about William Reen and Johanna Burke, especially the marriage record which shows that William’s father was David Reen, and not John Reen. Also, I don’t believe you had mentioned William and Johanna’s son William, who was born in November of 1881, less than 9 months after his parents were married.

In addition, have you come across any information that William Reen had been an “Army Pensioner?”

I have a subscription to Ancestry.com and found a submission by Tracy Kruse Nichols showing that William Senior arrived in New York on the S.S. Spain on 22 November 1881, which would have been 9 days after the birth of William Reen in Bandon on November 13, 1881. But, just from this ship’s arrival record, you cannot really tell if this is your William Reen, as it doesn’t tell where in Ireland he came from, though it does shows that he was 30 years old, which indeed would place his year of birth in 1851.

Her submission to Ancestry.com also shows that William’s parents were James Reen and Ann/Anne Morgan Reen.

Tracy’s submission also notes that Johanna Burke’s parents were Daniel Burke and Ann/Anne Walsh Burke.

Tracy, unfortunately, does not have the 1881 Bandon marriage record for William and Johanna showing that William’s father was David and that Johanna’s father was William.

Also Thom, I am now hesitant to send you the 1851 baptism records for William and Daniel Reen and the 1856 baptism record for their brother Timothy, as their father is John Reen, not David. But, if you still would like their baptism records, as w ell as the marriage record for John Reen and Ann Morgan, I can send these records to you.

This genealogy may be one of those cases, which are all too common, where someone submits information about their ancestry online that is not correct as concerns their grandparents, and great grandparents, etc. This information is then picked up by other researchers who perpetuate the same errors by placing the same information online, which are again picked up by yet another family historian, without having first located original records of baptisms, marriages, or deaths for their ancestor or ancestors.

Please let me know what you think Thom.

This reply includes three attachments, including:

Reen and Burke 1881 marriage
William Reen 1881 birth
William Reen 1883 death
____

Best Wishes Thom,

Dave

Dave,

I appreciate your putting in this much time into this matter.

There are a lot of information here to digest with what you sent me.

My mom talks about her Uncle John and Aunt Ellen Ann. They, like my grandmother, were born in New York. My grandma was born in 1888. My mom always talked about "John" Reen being William's father and Johanna Burke being his wife. She thought Johanna may have gone by Anna rather than Johanna from time-to-time. For what it is worth, if tradition is to name children, especially boys, after men in the family, we do not have any Davids in the Reen Family. Nor do we have any James names - as pointed out from the Ancestry site you reference. Therefore, my mom's Uncle John could have been named after his grandfather John. Only guessing on this. 

I have seen that record of the "Spain" landing in New York with "Willaim Reen" circa 22 November 1881. I have always considered that to be my ancestor. There does not appear to be any reference to having a wife on board with him, however.

I believe William was a butcher in New York. I do not know if he was one in Ireland.

I too have Ancestry.com subscription (Skelly Family Tree) and just looked up the information Tracy Kruse Nichols' has on her page. She lists my grandmother Nora A Reen (Farley). She appears to be gathering information on my mother's Uncle John Reen. Appears she is a distant relative of mine (go figure). Tracy's submission of Johanna Burke’s parents being Daniel Burke and Ann/Anne Walsh Burke matches my information. Her submission of "James" being William's father (not John) is not consistent with my notes although Tracy mentions Ann Morgan Reen who is consitent with my notes. She does have John in parenthesis. She appears to get this information from "Find A Grave" who has him listed as being born in 1848 and father named James.

I agree with you regarding how information gets distorted over time as people put information without verifying the information. I am not saying she's wrong but I wonder if this is a case of a change that become perpatual, even from a reputable site such as "Find A Grave."

We seem to be coming to the same conclusions, however, unless she is getting this information from me and I am the one with the wrong information to begin with, thus perpetuating the false narrative (how ironic). I certainly hope she came to her conclusion independent of mine and only verifies what I have written. I guess I'll try and email her to get her sources of information.

I was not aware of a William Reen whose father is David who had a son named William dying in Ireland (1881-1883). 

I am going on the premise that my ancestor was William, son of John Reen and not David Reen. But this appears to be open to debate with the information you present to me. So, if you do not mind, please send me the information regarding William son of John Reen and Ann Morgan. Along with Timothy. Able to find anything on a Jeremiah Reen?

I truly appreciate your help on this journey. I will correspond with Tracy to see where she got the information from. I will relay the information you provided me.

Much thanks,

Be safe. Be well.

 

Thom Skelly

Hi Thom,

Thank you very much for your detailed reply. I’ll be happy to send you the information I found about the marriage of John Reen and Anne Morgan, and the baptisms for their children.

These Catholic Parish register marriage and baptisms were initially found at the Find My Past (FMP) website. FMP is traditionally a subscription website but does not charge to search Irish Catholic parish register transcriptions of baptisms, marriages, and available church burial records.

Attached to each transcription is a link that takes you to a copy of the original church baptism, marriage, or burial, held by the National Library of Ireland in Kildare Street, Dublin.

The FMP marriage transcription shows that John Reen and Anne Morgan were married in the Bandon Catholic Parish on 16 June 1850. I believe you may have to establish an account with FMP to access the marriage transcription, as well as the baptism transcriptions of the children.

You can view the Bandon marriage transcription at the following FMP link: https://www.findmypast.com/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FMAR%2F0227112%2F1

To access a copy of the original marriage record for John and Anne, go to the following National Library of Ireland link at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000632435#page/7/mode/1up

There are two facing pages to the Bandon marriage register. You can enlarge the page by means of round icons in the upper center/ right of the screen. The icons are white with green backgrounds. You can also access the full-screen function by clicking on the last icon on the right with the two arrows pointing northeast and southwest.

The marriage for John and Anne is on the left-hand register page. To find it, scroll down the page until you come to the “April 1850” subheading. The marriage for John and Anne is the 6th entry below the April 1850 subheading, and shows that the witnesses to the marriage were Robert Donovan and Wm (William) Morgan. John and Anne were married by the Rev. D. Barry.

The following links will take you to the FMP baptism transcriptions for the twins William and Daniel Reen, who were baptized in Bandon on 23 February 1851.

For William’s baptism transcription, see: https://www.findmypast.com/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F1120089

For Daniel’s baptism transcription, go to: https://www.findmypast.com/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F1120090

Copies of the original Bandon Catholic Parish baptism records for William and Daniel can be found on the right-hand register page, 5th and 6th entries down from the top.

William’s godparents are William Morgan and Eliza Reen.

Daniel’s godparents are James Sullivan and Sarah Morgan.

The 13 February 1856 FMP baptism transcription for Timothy Reen can be accessed at:
https://www.findmypast.com/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F1121065

A copy of the original baptism record for “Timy” Reen is the last entry on the right-hand register page at:
https://www.findmypast.com/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F1121065

This entry is a challenge to read because the image is dark and the handwriting not very good.

The first name of Timothy’s godfather looks like James. I could not make out his last name. The first name of Timothy’s godmother is “Cath.” I could not tell what her last name was.

I next looked for, but did not find a baptism record for a Jeremiah Reen, son of John Reen and Anne Morgan.

Also Thom, your information shows that Johanna’s parents may have been Charles Burke and Julia Collins. I did not find the baptisms of any children in the Bandon Catholic registers for the children of Charles Burke and Julia Collins, nor did I find the baptism for children of Charles Burke and Julia Collins anywhere in County Cork, or adjoining counties, such as Kerry, Limerick, Tipperary, or Waterford.

But, there are at least 8 Bandon Catholic Parish baptisms for children of a Charles “Birts” and Julia Collins, which I found at the Church Records site of the irishgenealogy.ie website.

One of these baptism records abbreviates the child’s name as Joha, which may be the abbreviation for Johanna.

Below, I’ve compiled an index of the names and dates of baptism for the 8 children of Charles Birst and Julia Collins:

Robt Birts, 11 October 1823
Ths Birts, 20 November 1825
Ann Birts, 14 March 1828
Mary Birts, 6 December 1830
Ds Birts, 26 June 1833
John Birts 25 February 1836
Chs Birts, 18 February 1838
Joha Birts, 7 April 1842
____

The “Ds” in the 26 June 1833 baptism may refer to Denis Birts.

I didn’t find the marriage for a Charles Birts and Julia Collins at the irishgenealogy.ie website.

Thom, Please keep in touch with any new information you may find.

With Best Wishes,

Dave