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Patrick Joseph O'Donnell and family

Tipperary

Hi there

Looking for help trying to locate the gentleman in this picture marked with an arrow who is my husband's grandfather. Patrick Joseph ODonnell is listed as born according to the 1939 census on the 24/10/1908. His father was Frank ODonnell - Battery Sargent Major. Royal Artillery. (as per his marriage certificate in 1935, and listed as retired at the time) . I don't know his mother's name and Im told they are from Tipperary but I dont know where from exactly. know he was from a big family of 10 siblings and had a sister Bridget who became a nun. I cant find any death certificate and I don't know when he passed away. I have acouple of maybes on the Irish census but nothing that takes me any further. Im not sure when this picture was taken but it looks like the 50s?

I found a family that is a close match to the records (census doc attached) and I have and found a marriage certificate for John O'Donnell and KateClarke on the 02/05/1900. John's father was a Francis O'Donnell and I think his mother was Bridget but there are a few possibilities here - Clifford or Franklin.My trail goes cold here, I can't find any further records

Thanks in advance

Cris Martini

crismartini@gm…

3 replies

Cris:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

Patrick was actually born October 25th 1907   https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1907/01676/1666820.pdf  The civil birth record images areavailable on the free site www.irishgenealogy.ie ; Currently records are available to 1916 but we are expecting the 1917 and 1918 records to be added shortly.

Here is Francis Jr. in January 1910 https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1910/01581/1636704.pdf

Here is William (Liam?) in April 1913  https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01451/1593165.pdf

There is a twin to Francis named John    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1910/01581/1636704.pdf

They showed John as 10 months in the 1911 census and Francis was shown as 2 or 1 most likely 1

Catherine in September 1905   https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1905/01772/1697152.pdf

Did not find Bridget's civil record. Other children may have been born after 1916.

Your note indicates that Francis O'Donnell was a soldier but all the records I see show him as a labourer. The 1900 marriage record indicates that Kate Clarke's father was a soldier. Did you get the families mixed up?

Roger McDonnell

 

 

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Hi Roger

 

Thank you so much for the welcome wishes and your help.

I think this is the right family, Francis is listed as a  "general/dealer" on the census records. Wonder what he was dealing. Yes, I'm pretty certain he was listed as a soldier, I have attached the marriage certificate and I know the Welsh side of the family fairly well and they were all Miners.  As there was no need to show any documents when they register the wedding I'm assuming this was an attempt to make the family look a little more important than they were. The fact that most of the kids were born in Workhouses gives me the impression that they were very poor. - would there be records somewhere of residents??    Looking further on Irish Genealogy I found the BC records for Peter O'Donnell and the parents listed as John and Kate where the father is listed as an Army Pensioner albeit this is 1917 and he must have been too young to be already retired. 

I'm not familiar with the area and just working my way through Irish HIstory to try to tell a story and I can only guess that like many other soldiers at the time he must have joined the army due to war efforts  - the timing fits with WW1.  I also noticed that the area used to have Army barracks and quite a large military presence and read in other forums that it's pretty normal that soldiers would work their land when free and work as soldiers when needed. 

I'm told Bridget was the oldest daughter and she became a nun. Again I have little information and hope there is a way to track some records of her via the church, but not sure where to start.. 

The last piece of the puzzle I found ties Patrick and John to New Road in Tipperary (it looks like they moved from Old road to New road now...) and is a court order sending Patrick to an Industrial school in Clonmel. and he was ordered to stay till 1923.

Still looking for the rest of the family, let's see if I get any further. 

Kind regards

 

Cris Martini

crismartini@gm…

Cris:

They may have been in the workhouse but each workhouse had a hospital and Kate may have gone there for the birth particularly the twins.

Roger

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

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