O'Toole/ Whelan

The parish records for clonmel are all transcribed on the tipperarysouth.rootsireland.ie database and can be search online for a fee. It will search by soundex and name alternatives, it is likely the records will show Toole, Tuohil, O'Toole etc...

beware also that in early parish records Phelan and Whelan are interchangeable and so I would recommend you carry a search using both names

If they are from Clonmel, you may find a marriage also which may or may not records where they were from. This might allow you to find a baptism for Thomas Toole and Margaret Phelan/Whelan

Clonmel is covered by 3 Roman Catholic parishes (I have assumed they were catholic based on surnames) St Marys, Powerstown and SS Peter & Paul 

 

Hope you get lucky.

 

Cecile Mulcahy

Prof. Researcher

Thank you very much for this information

 

Our family - the Mooney branch - are also descendants of Thomas Toole and Margaret Whelan. We are researching the family in Ireland. If you would be willing to share any results of your investigation with us, we would be most grateful. We are going to visit Dublin soon and maybe other towns. Naturally we would share the results of our search with you. Patricia Mooney

Hi Patricia

Yes I would like to share an information I have on Thomas OToole and Margaret Whelan. That's great that you are able to go to Ireland. Where are you living? I live in Australia.

Marg Clifton

Hi Marg,

Thank you so much for your quick reply. I live in Switzerland and my sister, who is researching with me, lives in England, near Liverpool, where the O'Tooles also lived. Thomas O'Toole, born 1804 in Clonmel is my gg grandfather. We have the family tree on Ancestry, but there are gaps in the Irish records.  I googled Thomas O'Toole and found this forum. I would love some definite dates and that would start the ball rolling. The Mooney side of the family came from Dublin, so I was told. More research. It is a nice project in my retirement. What amazing lives our ancesters led.

Best regards,

Patricia

Hi Patricia

Thomas O'Toole is my ggg grandfather. His son Thomas my gg grandfather. His daughter Mary Catherine my g grandmother. Her daughter Mary Rose my grandmother.

I have found Thomas Snr b 1804 in the 1861 English Census with his wife Margt sons John, Michael, Thomas, Mary (Thomas's wife) and Ellen Clarey granddaughter. Mother of Ellen is Margaret married James Clarey.

Sons John and wife Catherine O'Sullivan and ? two daughters that were born in Liverpool. Also Thomas and Mary nee Barry Thomas's wife plus daughter Mary Catherine, son Laurence born in Liverpool. Arrived in Australia in October 1865 in Queensland another daughter Rosanna was born at sea in Rio De Janeiro.

Michael Francis another son, and his wife Mary nee Crotty were also on the same ship "The Golden Land" A daughter Mary Catherine was born at sea in September and died in November in Queensland.

I have also recently found another son Daniel wife Joan nee Bennett and daughter Annie born in Liverpool. Lived in Victoria Australia, I haven't found when he and his family arrived in Australia.

But!! I haven't been able to find Thomas snr or wife Margaret after the 1861 census. Do you have any information on this?

Marg

 

Hi Patricia

Thomas O'Toole is my ggg grandfather. His son Thomas my gg grandfather. His daughter Mary Catherine my g grandmother. Her daughter Mary Rose my grandmother.

I have found Thomas Snr b 1804 in the 1861 English Census with his wife Margt sons John, Michael, Thomas, Mary (Thomas's wife) and Ellen Clarey granddaughter. Mother of Ellen is Margaret married James Clarey.

Sons John and wife Catherine O'Sullivan and ? two daughters that were born in Liverpool. Also Thomas and Mary nee Barry Thomas's wife plus daughter Mary Catherine, son Laurence born in Liverpool. Arrived in Australia in October 1865 in Queensland another daughter Rosanna was born at sea in Rio De Janeiro.

Michael Francis another son, and his wife Mary nee Crotty were also on the same ship "The Golden Land" A daughter Mary Catherine was born at sea in September and died in November in Queensland.

I have also recently found another son Daniel wife Joan nee Bennett and daughter Annie born in Liverpool. Lived in Victoria Australia, I haven't found when he and his family arrived in Australia.

But!! I haven't been able to find Thomas snr or wife Margaret after the 1861 census. Do you have any information on this?

Marg

 

Hi Marg,

I am still looking at the info you gave me against our tree. Lots of it we have. Thomas Toole born 1804 died in 1868. I have enclosed his death certificate and burial registration. I have not found his widow Margaret yet. Why don't you join www.ancestry.com? They give you a 2-week free trial and our whole tree is there: Bond family tree-2. It is a shame you have no information concerning Clonmel. Do you think it is difficult to find?

Yours,

Patricia

 Hi Patricia

I do have an ancestry sub. Had a look at your Bond family Tree.

I don't know if the Thomas o'Toole that died in 1868 is my ggg grandfather, I do have that death cert. I have his son Thomas's death certificate, which states that his father was a stonemason as his Occupation. Also who is Delia O'Toole? Do you know? 

Have you also obtained the marriage and death certificate of Michael O'Toole that died in Liverpool in 1880? 

In a newspaper clip I have of Thomas J death in 1886 there is a Michael O'Toole inviting friends of his, to his brother's funeral. Michael came out on the same ship as Thomas and John "The Golden Land" in October 1865. In the death index of Michael O'Toole in 1926 states his father is Patrick T and mother as Mary? I will get a copy of the death cert. 

I also have the death cert of a Patrick O'Toole. Died 1883 age 80 so born 1803, he was in a Asylum in Liverpool, Sydney. Occ: bootmaker. Not much info on him and what there is comes from the undertaker. States he came out to Australia in 1862 on the ship "Mary"  Also that his religion is C of E. He is buried in a grave next to Thomas my gg grandfather who died in 1886. Could this be our Thomas??? or Patrick

Will have to try and find him in the ship arrivals

When you go to Ireland the best thing to start looking for would be Thomas and Margt's marriage in the parish church's. I don't know how hard it will be. Hope you can get help. I wonder if this site Ireland Reaching Out would help? 

I would like to go to Ireland about this time next year.

Marg

Hi Marg,

We do not have death certificate of Micheal O'Toole or marraige certificate to Mary Hoey. We have not investigated Thomas O'Toole born 1804, nor his wife Margaret Whelan 1808. We do not know who Patrick and Delia are. As far as we know Micheal O'Toole b. 1866, son of Thomas O'Toole b.1804, lived and died in Liverpool. We will check the connections again, but it will take time. I have submitted a query to Ireland reaching out.

Patricia

Hi Marg,

Made a mistake: "As far as we know Micheal O'Toole b. 1866, son of Thomas O'Toole b.1804, lived and died in Liverpool". Should be: born in 1841.

My apologies.

We are still going over all the data.

Regards,

Patricia

Hello Patricia and Marg.
Such a long time since you added this post so I do hope you will see this. I am of the Balmain Australia branch of the o'toole family. My gg grandfather was Thomas married to Mary. I'd love to know more about where they are from in Ireland if you are able to help me at all.
Melanie

Hi Melanie
ThomasOToole n Mary Barry are my gg grandparents as well. And yes from Balmain branch. Their daughter Mary Catherine my grandmother n her daughter Mary Rose nee Byrne my grandmother. She married William Darragh n moved to Kyogle on the Nth Coast of NSW. They had 7 sons with my father John Joseph been the eldest. What part of the O'Tooles family are you from?

Best wishes Marg

Dear Marg and Melanie,

I migrated from pc to Mac a number of years ago and lost my old emails, thus did not receive notifications of your replies. 

I have since found out my O'Tooles were from Dublin and not Clonmel. They emigrated to Liverpool, where many still live. However I have seen other O'Tooles whose photos show a strong resemblence to my family members. I will give more info later when I have done more research.

Regards,
Patricia Mooney

 

 

Hello Patricia and Marg
My family are from Laurence who was the brother Mary Cathrines brother. They originally came from clonmel (Mary andThomas) Thomas I believe was one if the children born in liverpool where they boarded the golden land to Queensland. I'm dying to know what happened between Queensland and how did they end up in Balmain. We have only just left Balmain/Rozelle in the last 2 years as our family homes are being demolished for the roads up grades. Very sad end of an era. To think our family branch have been there since the 1860s . So lovely to have been able to get in touch with you both. Have you seen The amazing family photo of Thomas Mary and the children. Not sure if I can post it here.
Have a lovely weekend
Melanie

I'm sorry I ment to say Laurence was one of the children born in liverpool not Thomas. They lived in an area called toxteth park liverpool.

HI Marg and Melanie,

Since the original posting I have discovered that we are each from separate branches of the family. The O'Tooles in my family lived down by the docks off Scotland Road. Toxteth is another area. I grew up in Liverpool so know it very well. 

So here is what i know: 

We are from the Micheal Toole b. 1841 in Dublin and his wife Marie Hoey b 1838 (presumably Dublin). 

Micheal has a sister Mary C Toole, born 1843. I will try to see where your O'Tooles fit in  with ours, but it will take time as no doubt you know.
One thing that struck me was that they all stuck together, even on the same street.
This family tree owner on Ancestry has the information you want :  jandrpollard112 in Australia. She mentions the Golden Hind. William O'Toole is her grandfather.

She does not have a dna link to me, so may come from another branch of the family.  But the Tooles/O'Tooles are very thin on the ground anyway in the dna matches. The only strong and verifiable match is a 4th-6th cousin, who we know of in Liverpool. The remainder 14 of them,  are all distant cousins. 
A great deal of Toxteth has been pulled down and Scotland Road is unrecognisable. 
How sad for you that the witnesses of your history are being demolished under your noses.
We are going to Dublin in  a few weeks time to have a look in the library for some records and will update you if there is anything interesting.
Again I apologise for not responding sooner.
Yours,
Patricia
P.S. there are lots of twins in the family

Hello Patricia,
I too am struck by how they all stayed together. My Line Thomas sailed to aus with his brother Michael and I've just read through these post and seen that there was also a John with them that I hadn't known about. I've been in touch with a relative from the Michael line and I believe that might be the member of ancestry. Com that you mentioned. Jandrpollard. She has written a book and asked me for some info on my line of the family as many of them are buried in rookwood cemetery. As for the twins, my nan had twin sisters her mother was myra constance imelda o'toole. This is all just so lovely and exciting. I'm also on ancestry my tree is called melanie Thomas Thomas family tree. Some great pictures on there if you're able to access it.
So lovely chatting with you both
Mel

Hi Melanie and Marg,

Thanks for your reply and great you have success in your search. I could not access your tree, I need your username to do so.
May I ask have you had DNA done - this might provide a link? Jan Pollard, according to Ancestry, "either has not done a test or is not a dna match".
I find it very exciting too.
Patricia

 

Hi Ladies

This is very exciting. Maybe between the three of us we will be able to solve what happened to Thomas and Margaret O'Toole nee (Whelan). I don't think the Thomas that died in 1868 in Liverpool England was our Thomas this Thomas was a bootmaker and in the 1861 census our Thomas was a stonemason labourer, and who was Delia that provided the information on him for his death cert? I have a copy here.

That is so sad that the houses of the family have been knocked down. Where abouts in Sydney do you live Mel? I live in Sydney at La Perouse. Would love to meet up with you.

I have quiet a few photos of the Thomas John O'Toole Mary Barry family also. I thought I had a DNA match with jandrpollard on Ancestry but I can't find it now, I recognise the name. Thomas and Mary had twins as well, Margaret Cecilia and another Thomas born in 1870 in Balmain but Thomas died in 1873 aged 3.

I have found Thomas John and all of his brothers and sisters baptisms on nli Registers Ireland. John who is the eldest was baptised in St Mary's Clonmel. Then Thomas John, Michael Francis, Daniel, and two Margaret's one born/baptised 1846 and the other 1851 so I suppose the Margaret born 1846 must have died.

John and his wife Catherine O'Sullivan and two daughters Mary Ann and Mary Winifred came out to Australia with Thomas John and Mary Barry. Also Michael Francis and his wife Mary Crotty came with them.

Brother Daniel came out to Australia in 1873 to Melbourne with his wife Jane Bennett and a son and two daughters.  He stayed and died there. He deserted his wife and children some years before he died. 

John O'Toole and wife Catherine also moved to Victoria with their children they had 12 children but two daughters died young in Balmain, Sydney. Both in July 1867. I should get their death cert to see what they died of.

I have a tree on Ancestry but it is a private one called Darragh Family I could send you an invite as a guest to it if you would like. Must get off to bed as I have two grandchildren coming early tomorrow, Riley aged 4 turning 5 in Sept. and Ivy 2. I look after them each Wednesday while their parents work, then they're in daycare Thursday and Friday.

Marg

 

So lovely being In touch with you ladies. The two family houses are on Victoria road Rozelle. My nan moved to them when she married, before marriage she was in birchgrove/balmain in in one of the homes that the O'tooles settled in . Amazing family history I love it. My username on ancestry is melanierixon I've paused my subscription at the moment as I have a young family and dont like to pay for it when I'm not really using it. I just start it back up when I have some spare time to research. I dont know if that effects you being able to view it. I haven't done a DNA test yet I've been a bit sceptical about it but I'd love to know more . It was Jan Pollard who got in touch with me and was very helpful I might have an email somewhere if you'd like to get in touch. My mums cousins have also contributed alot of info to the family tree, they are also on ancestry. I'll find their usernames for you.

Hi Mel

I would love Jan Pollards email address please.  Hope I can find out some more info on the O'Tooles from her. Plus the cousins usernames that are on Ancestry. Also was your ggrandmother known as Imelda O'Toole as I have my grandmothers Autograph book here and one of the poems in it was written by Imelda O'Toole

Marg

 

Hello Marg

Yes my my nans mum was imelda and nan always tells me she wrote poems. I've never seen one. Wow that wonderful that you have a bit of history . How lovely.
The user names are
Nicolechehine
Ronaldo2176
And Jan email is jandrpollard@msn.com

Would absolutely love to hear the poem.
Lovely to hear from you
Mel.

Hi Mel

I was thinking that I knew your name. We corresponded via Ancestry in 2014.

I sent you two poems of Imelda O'Toole's that were in my grandmother's Autograph book. May Darragh nee Byrne.

I sent them to you via your email. 

Thanks for Jan Pollard's email. haven't done anything with contacting her as yet. Have been to busy with my family so haven't done any family tree researching for a couple of months.

Also once you have your DNA done you can download your raw DNA from Ancestry and load it up to GEDmatch and get a number. Which you can then load it into a Facebook group called The Irish Surname Registry and find other people that are researching the same family names.

Marg

 

Hi my great, great grandparents were Thomas John and Mary ( née Barry) O’Toole as well. My great grandmother was Rose Bridgett their daughter who was born at sea near Rio de Janiero. She married Arthur Nadin My grandmother was their daughter Kathleen who married Patrick Doolan and my mother was their daughter Irene who married Zachary Benn. This is my direct line so I am related to the Darragh’s Byrnes and O’Toole’s. I have had my DNA done and I have matches to all these families. Cheers Judy