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O'Connell and/or McVeigh/McVey/McAvoy...

Tipperary

Hello the group!

I found a New York City Catholic church record a few weeks ago that led me to Tipperary. I'm hoping someone can help me with the next step.

My 2x great-grandparents, Patrick O'Connell and Mary Ann McVeigh were born around 1840 and emmigrated from Ireland to New York City around 1864, based on U.S. census records and the approximate birth date of their first child. I have not been able to find them yet in the U.S. immigration records. Altogether, they had eleven children. Recently, transcripts of the Roman Catholic Diocese of New York records were digitized and put online. I found baptism records for ten of the eleven children. It wasn't until I found the records of the final two, however, that I saw a field that hadn't been included on records from any other parish I looked at, Residence -- Tipperary. I'm hoping that means that either Patrick or Mary Ann, or both, came from County Tipperary (or even the town of Tipperary, it wasn't clear.)

Based upon Patrick's death certificate, his parents' names were Edmund and Nora O'Connell (no maiden name given.) Based upon her death certificate, Mary Ann's parents were John McVey and Catherine Rooney.

According to the 1870 U.S. census, a woman named Catherine McVaigh, and a much younger man named James McVaigh, (so many possible spellings) both born in Ireland, were living with the couple and their first three children. I assume they were Mary Ann's mother and younger brother. That is the only record I have of James so far. Catherine (McAvoy!) appears on the O'Connell plot interment list, buried in 1900, but otherwise I have found no further record of her.

So, any suggestions on where to start my search and what to look for in Tipperary?

Many thanks! Kathleen

IrelandXO member

5 replies

Kathleen:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

Do the US census records give an approximate year of birth for Patrick? I ask because I located an 1835 baptismal record in Mullinahone RC parish which is in South Tipperary on the eastern side of the county bordering Co. Kilkenny. The townland is likely Ballycullin in Kilvemnon civil parish. 

Edmond Connell is listed as a head of household in Ballycullin parish in the 1850 Griffiths Valuation https://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/tipperary/kilvemnon.htm

 First name(s)PatrickLast nameConnellBirth year-Baptism year1835Baptism date17 Jan 1835ResidenceBallycullenParishMullinahoneDioceseCashel and EmlyCountyTipperaryCountryIrelandFather's first name(s)EdmondFather's last nameConnellMother's first name(s)HonoraMother's last nameMahonyRepositoryNational Library of IrelandNational Library of Ireland linkhttp://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000632754#page/1/mode/1upRegisterBaptism

Likely Mary Ann McVeigh came from a Northern Ireland county possibly Tyrone, Down or Antrim. I looked on the subscription site Roots Ireland and found an 1844 record in Co. Antrim but I have no confidence that this is the correct record. Consider this record as a lead.

Let me know what questions you have.

Roger McDonnell

Name:Mary McvayDate of Birth:
Date of Baptism:14-Feb-1844Address:
Parish/District:DUNEANEGender:FemaleCountyCo. Antrim
Denomination:Roman Catholic
Father:John McvayMother:CatherineOccupation:
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:Henry Gormal Sponsor 2 /
Informant 2:Rose Mcvey 

 

 

 

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Hi Roger,

Thank you for the welcome and the wonderful information!

According to the U.S. census, Patrick was 35 in 1870, which would make the baptismal record you found a perfect fit. This is my first time looking at the National Library website. Can you tell me the search process you used to find Patrick's record? I'd like to see if I can find records for any siblings and maybe a marriage record for Edmond and Honora.

The census records for Mary Ann consistently show her birth year to be about 1840. But the baptismal record you found is interesting for another reason. A few months ago, when Find My Past opened access to its worldwide records for a few days, I found a marriage record for a John McVey and Catherine Rooney in 1839, in Derrymacash, Armagh. Although it was the only marriage record that came up with that name combination, I wasn't sure it was my 3x great-grandparents. But, on Google maps, Counties Antrim and Armagh are across Lough Neagh from one another. Am I being too credulous to imagine that there could have been connections between the two areas? I have seafarers on other branches of my tree, so a Lough doesn't seem like an insurmountable obstacle.  :-)

Can you give me any insight into why the Connells would have chosen to become O'Connells in the U.S.?

What is the likelihood that Mary Connell, listed below Edmund in the Griffith's Valuation, is related to Edmund?

Do you recommend a subscription to Roots Ireland? I have a U.S. only subscription to Find My Past, but have been considering upgrading my subscription to worldwide access.

Thank you again for your help!

Kathleen

IrelandXO member

Kathleen:

Researching RC church records in Co. Tipperary can be tricky. I'm going to get into a lot of details trying to answer your question.

Our top source for researching RC church records for Ireland is the subscription site Roots Ireland. Tipperary parishes are split into three dioceses: Killoloe, Cashel and Emly and Waterford and Lismore. Killaloe in the north, Cashel and Emly in the south and Waterford and Lismore in the southeast on the Waterford border. As I understand it, the Bishops of the Diocese of Cashel and Emly never gave permission for the Roots Ireland network to transcribe their records. So when  I get a query about a baptism in Tipperary back in the 1st half of the 19th century, I first check Roots Ireland and if I get "no record" I then check FindMyPast.ie   Searching on that site is difficult and you have to review a number of records to see if you can find the person you need. In your case, I went thru about ten records and then found a good possiblility for your Patrick Connell.

Here is some more background. In the early 1950s the National Library of Ireland microfilmed all available parish registers. They stopped at 1880 for privacy reasons because some people born in 1880 were still alive in the early 1950s and some of the records had information such as "illegitimate". About three-four years ago the NLI digitally imaged the registers in their possession and that is what is available now at registers.nli.ie   However, you have to manually search these records to see if you can find an ancestors record and the registers can be faint, written in Latin, etc

About two-three years ago, FindMyPast and Ancestry initiated a joint project using software to try to convert the NLI records for searching purposes. There are various estimates on how successful they were- 60-70%??  It is those records that I searched. However, searching on FindMyPast is more cumbersome than using Roots Ireland.

Here is the parish register for Mullinahone https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0277 You may have more success with that file looking for siblings to Patrick and a marriage record rather than using FindMyPast 

I think it will take more work to find your Catherine McVeigh/McVey. As I indicated, I have little confidence in the record I located. I would not make a connection with the marriage record from Armagh and the baptismal record. Have you considered DNA testing? It may help by giving you matches with people who have McVeigh connections and know more about your family. Even doing a search on Ancestry.com might yield a public tree of someone who is connected to your McVeigh line.

In the 19th century and earlier the O' and Mc prefixes were frowned upon by the authorities and you will find that many emigrants restored the O' and MC prefixes when they came to their new country.

It is very likely that the Mary Connell you found in the Griffiths is a widow of a brother or possibly an uncle of Edmund. 

I don't know how much more family searching you have on your plate besides the Connells and McVeighs but a short-term subscription to Roots Ireland may be helpful but you won't find your Connell family on Roots Ireland. Also, just so you know Roots Ireland does not have any Co. Kerry records, Dublin city and also part of Co. Cork. Same advice with Find My Past, it really depends on how much searching you have to do. 

Let me know if you have more questions.

Roger

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Hi Roger,

I apologize for the delay getting back to you. Life always seems to be distracting me from genealogy.

I did some searching through the parish register and found a marriage record for Edmond Connell and Honora Mahoney. They were married on 7 Feb 1826. Then I scanned forward, assuming there would be children born before my 2x great-grandfather, Patrick, in 1835. I found two siblings, Margaret in 1829 and Michael in 1832. I tried scanning the years after 1835 as well, but that portion of the register was very difficult to read and I gave up after a few years of records. I was surprised to see that nine years into their marriage, Edmond and Nora had had only three children.

I had my DNA tested several years ago through Ancestry.com. My results show 65% Irish/Scottish. I knew before testing that I had Irish ancestors on at least three branches of my family tree, so I wasn't surprised. Initially, Ancestry linked my Irish DNA to the Connacht and Northern Ireland regions. But with the recent updates, that specificity seems to have disappeared. I haven't had any luck finding McVeigh connections through Ancestry. I did upload my file to GEDMatch. Maybe I'll eventually have better luck there. I'm still learning how to understand DNA.

I will take your advice and sign up for a Roots Ireland subscription. I'll also post a few more inquiries about what I know of my other Irish ancestors. Thanks again for your help!

 

Kathleen

IrelandXO member

Kathleen:

Good to hear that you found the marriage records and a couple baptismal records. All the best with your research.

Roger

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

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