Ireland XO
Back to Message Board

Norton, Nagle, Fitzgerald families

Hello! I'm looking for information about the family of my maternal Grandmother, Joan Norton (maiden name Nagle), of Castle Maine, Ireland. She was born in County Kerry, Ireland on 18 Dec 1902 and died in 1970 (Michigan, U.S.). She had a number of siblings including Cisse, Eileen, Garrett, Jack, Jimmy, Tom, Maude, May, and George. Not sure of these spellings.

My mother, Maureen Cullen (maiden name Norton), was also born in Ireland. In Tralee, County Kerry on 17 August 1932 and died 8 Jan 1972 (Michigan, U.S.).

I'm interested in my maternal Great Grandmother whose maiden name I believe was Mary Fitzgerald. I have little information about her. The family was Catholic most likely. Maybe there are no available records, I only know that she must have been a strong and kind woman to have raised my wonderful Grandmother.

My maternal Grandmother (Joan Nagle, first or middle name may also have been Hannah) immigrated to the U.S. sometime around 1920-29. I know she met my maternal Grandfather in Detroit, Michigan and were married there. My Grandmother returned to Ireland to give birth to my Mother and spent a year there before returning to the U.S. My maternal Grandfather was born in Dublin, Ireland in 1901 and he had asister whose name I believe was Mary (married name Bassy). They were Catholic too. He may have had siblings who immigrated to Australia. I'm not sure.

The only sources I've searched have been through Ancestry.com I believe my tree is public under the name Mary Cullen Guttman. I've not searched Roots Ireland but will give that a go.

Thank you in advance for any information you may be able to send my way!

IrelandXO member

9 replies

MjC:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

I located the 1901 and 1911 census reocrds for the Nagle family.   The father was George. In the 1911 census, mary was shown as married for 17 years. I searched for a marriage record around 1893 in the Tralee registration district and found a George Nagle/Mary Knightly marriage record in December 1893. Mary was from Castlemaine. I also found a likely baptismal record in 1862. See below.   Co. Kerry church records are on the free site www.irishgenealogy.ie ; Also, civil records are on the same site

Roger McDonnell

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kerry/Kiltallagh/Castl…

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kerry/Kiltallagh/Castl…

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_re…

Area - KERRY (RC) , Parish/Church/Congregation - CASTLEMAINE
Baptism of MARY KNIGHTLY of CLOUNALANE on 11 January 1862

NameMARY KNIGHTLYDate of Birth11 January 1862 (BASED ON OTHER DATE INFORMATION)AddressCLOUNALANEFatherWILLIAM KNIGHTLYMotherMARY BRIEN

Sponsor 1PATRICK GRIFFINSponsor 2JOHANNA HUORANPriestREV. C. SHEAHAN

 

 

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

just wondering if this birth is relevant - date matches but it's not in Castlemaine, but about 4km (~2.5 Miles) to the north ?

Birth of Johanna Nagle on the 18th December 1902, place of birth is Ballygamboon Upper, located south of Tralee, father John Nagle and mother Mary Fitzgerald. The family are included at this townland on the 1911 census, which seems to record Johanna as Julia.

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

Roger and Shanew147 - THANK YOU so much for your kindness in taking time to locate info about my grandmother and great-granmother!!!  This information will definitely help me continue on with my search.  I've never heard the name Mary Knightly but it might be possible that is her.  And Johanna Nagle may be my grandmother as I know my father used to affectionately cal her "Hannah" yet I never knew why.  I never heard my grandmother called Julia though.  

If only I had asked all these questions I have now when my grandmother and mother were alive.  Of course my own children don't ask me questions (haha) but I hope to leave documents and information about our family tree so when the time comes that they do have questions as much will be answered as possible.

I know that the family before me struggled with ups and downs of life, just as we all have.  If not for their strength and will to survive, I'd not be here - so I want to honor them all, no matter what their life story.

On a side note - for your interest.  I raised my two children to be proud of their Irish/Hispanic heritage.  We celebrated all of the Irish and Mexican holidays through the years.  Well, my son submitted a DNA test to ancestry.com about two years ago and it turned out that they have no mexican/spanish/hispanic blood whatsover.  They are actually decendants of American Indians!  How crazy is that?  Although it explains a lot to me since their father's family was from Arizona.  My DNA test noted 83% Irish, 3% Scandinavian (which I assume are the Vikings), and 14% European.  If you've not done a DNA test you should try it - it's truly fascinating.

Thank you again!!

 

IrelandXO member

just looking over births to John Nagle & Mary Fitzgerald along with that 1911 census - I found a seperate birth for Julia, two years after Johanna/Hannah - see Birth of Julia NAGLE 30 October 1904, so seems they were sisters. I also found births with the same parents which could fit with a number of the brothers & sisters you mentioned : George 9th May 1901, John (Jack) 2nd May 1908, Mary (May) 21st April 1906 and Catherine (Cisse?) 22 February 1900, plus a few other possibles Eily (Eileen?) 2nd May 1911, Bridget 21st January 1914 and Gerald (Garrett?) 7th May 1916.

John Nagle & Mary Fitzgerald married in Castlemaine Catholic parish on the 23rd April 1899, so appears that Catherine is therefore the eldest. There could be younger children born after 1916 so would not show in the online civil birth records.

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

I found a few more details that I think confirm that the Johanna Nagle born 18th December 1902 at Ballygamboon townland is "your" Joan...

first clue is a U.S. Naturalization Records Index, which although it gives very few details does include two vital details - matching date of birth, plus city & state :

Name:     Joan Maria Norton
Birth Date:     18 Dec 1902
State:     Michigan
Locality, Court:     Detroit, District Court
Date : 1-29-35   (US format)

next clues were two passenger records travelling to the US under her maiden name Johanna Nagle, the first in 1925 on the Franconia, the second in 1929 on the Dresden - both of these mention her father as J./John Nagle with residence at  Ballygambown/Ballygamboon, Castlemaine, Co. Kerry and US final destination of Detroit, Michigan.

the final clue is the marriage in Michigan, Marriage Records, 1867-1952 as follows... I presume Patrick Norton is your maternal Grandfather ?

Names:  Joan Nagle & Patrick J Norton
Bride's Age: 27 ( abt 1904), place of birth     Ireland
Bride's parents : John Nagle & Mother:     Mary Fitzgerald
Groom's age :31 (abt 1900), place of birth Ireland, occupaton : chauffeur
Groom's parents : Denis Norton & Mary Donovan
Marriage Date:  23 Apr 1931
Marriage Place:  Detroit, Wayne, Michigan, USA

There's an image of this record on Ancestry. 
Since the parents names match those for the Johanna Nagle birth I mentioned this looking very good ..

I'll have a look for Patrick's birth...

edited : a quick update - I found Patrick with his family on the 1901 census at Leslie's Building in Dublin city, his father is  "railway policeman", and also located a birth for a sister Mary in January 1901, which confirm Mary snr.'s maiden surname as Donovan.

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

This is, indeed, my family!  I did not know about Julia so I'll have to see if she died at a young age or if she was given a different nickname.  And I did hear stories about my Grandfather, Patrick, having lived in the Leslie Buildings!  I did not know much about his father, except that he died and my Grandfather had to leave home when his mother remarried a man who wouldn't allow him to stay with them any longer.  :-(

Again, thank you!!

 

IrelandXO member

Patrick’s father Denis died on the 21st February 1902, at 10 Leslie’s Buildings, when your Patrick was about 4 years old. The informant is his widow Mary.
see : death of Denis Norton 1902

Mary married Patrick Cullinane about a year later on the 15th February 1903 in St. Paul’s RC (Arran Quay) - he was a tailor. They both give their residence as 10 Leslie’s Buildings…

some further details for reference :

Patrick was born in the Rotunda Hospital on the 24th March 1898 and his birth was registered without a firstname (maternity hospitals often bulk registered births) - the other details match father Denis a 'constable', and mother Mary Donovan.Their residence is given as 6 Leslie's Buildings

Denis Norton and Mary Donovan married in St. Kevin's (RC) Dublin city on the 25th February 1895
 

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

Hello, shanew147!  My sisters (all four of them) and my brother are so excited every time I pass on the information you have so kindly researched here.  I can't even begin to tell you how appreciative we are.  There simply are no words!  I can promise you that the Norton family of Patrick J (Dublin) and Joan (Castlemaine) were simply WONDERFUL people.  I remember so much laughter and kindness and strength.  They were members of the Detroit Gaelic League and so proud to be from Ireland (and missed their homeland so terribly).  I did not know my Grandfather, Patrick, because he died of heart disease (as did his father and grandfather) the year before I was born.  But I was always told how kind of a man he was.  Joan was amazingly strong, kind, and generous.  She made sure we were all so proud of our Irish heritage.  

IrelandXO member

Hi I am Nagle from Castlemaine with more information.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Annette

marynagle101@g…

Reply

Reply
One image file up to 2 MB.