Ireland XO
Back to Message Board

Nolans in Tipperary / finding the common ancestor of two second cousins.

Hi there! 

SUMMARY:  Who were the parents and grandparents of James Nolan (m. Alice Houlihan) and William Nolan (m. Margaret Leahey)? 

OR

I have tonnes of information but I can’t figure out how to tie it all together!

I  believe that James and William were cousins, and their sons Michael and John Patrick second cousins, but find myself unable to connect them up.  The family was and is catholic.  Everything I’ve managed to pull together is below.

Any help in how to progress this, avenues to explore, or even if you simply know the answer(!), would be most gratefully received.  It's my partner's father's line, and I'd love to be able to give them all some news about the family for Christmas!

NB. Throughout the below I standardize and anglicize names, i.e. Gulielmus is William, and Nowlan, Noland, Nowland, etc. are all Nolan.

 

----- JAMES NOLAN, fl. 1836, of Glengoole? -----

James Nolan, of Glengoole, Gortnahoe, Co. Tipperary (near New Birmingham), married at Moycakey and Borris, Co. Tipperary, 20 Apr 1836 to Alice Houlahan (b. 1807, probably at Borris, bap. 9 Apr 1807 at Moycarkey and Borris, dtr. of Ned (Edmund or Edward) Houlahan and Honora Shanahan).  Present at their wedding were a James Nolan and Bridget Houlahan (Ancestry).

James and Alice had at least seven children who were all baptized at Killenaule as follows:

  1. Margaret, bap. 10 Feb 1837, sp. Anty Nolan (Ancestry)
  2. John (Patrick), bap. 18 Jun 1839, sp. Edmund Carrol and Mary Nolan (Ancestry)
  3. Honoria, bap. 1 Jun 1841, sp. Connor Mathew and Mary Ryan (Ancestry)
  4. Mary, bap. 9 Feb 1843, sp. John Ryan and Mary Meagher (Ancestry)
  5. Edward, bap. 17 Jan 1845, sp. James Ryan and Mary ...mmins (Ancestry)
  6. Alice, bap. 15 Feb 1847, sp. Michael Nowlan and Mary Croake (Ancestry)
  7. Honora, bap. 30 Jun 1849, sp. Edmund Maher and Ellen Nawley (Ancestry)

James Nolan may also be the same who holds a portion of land at Glengoole as a tenant, mentioned in an encumbered estate sale there in 1855 (Ancestry).

 

----- JOHN PATRICK NOLAN, b. 1839, bap. 18 Jun 1839 at Killenaule, d. 1920 (Australia) -----

His son baptized John (above), but consistently named John Patrick, emigrated to Australia, and is first known there in 1863 when, on the 23 Jan 1863, he marries Margaret Jane O'Ryan at Sandhurst (now Bendigo), Victoria.  His Australian death record (Ancestry) explicitly mentions James Nolan as his father, and Houlihan as the maiden name of his mother, so there is pretty good certainty that John Patrick Nolan in Sandhurst, is the same as the John (Patrick) Nolan born to James and Alice at Glengoole.

Margaret Jane O'Ryan died in 1872, and John Patrick remarried to Elizabeth Mary Agnes Cullen, having between his two wives no less than 17 children.

A memorial plaque was put up at Corop cemetery, a small village in rural Victoria, Australia, where John Patrick and his family lived, probably between ca. 1871/2-1888.  The memorial plaque also mentions a Michael Nolan, as below.

 

----- MICHAEL NOLAN, b. 1838, bap. Killenaule, d. 1878, Australia -----

Michael Nolan, b. 1838, and baptised at Killenaule, publican of the Shamrock Hotel at Corop, Victoria, Australia, d. December 1878 there, m. to Ellen Hennessy, b. 1853, d. 1882.  The plaque explicitly mentions "Michael and John Patrick Nolan (Snr.) were second cousins..."   Michael and Ellen had four children, William, Edward, Michael, and Margaret.

Michael and Ellen's children were still under age when Ellen died in 1882.  Both Michael and Ellen died intestate, and John Patrick sues for executorship over their estate, on behalf of their under-age children, giving as one reason "That I make application to administer the estate of the said Michael Nolan deceased intestate left unadministered by the said Ellen Nolan during the minority of the eldest child of the said Michael Nolan as the cousin of the said children and I believe I am lawfully entitled to such administration." (VIC Public Record Office, image 4)

According to Michael Nolan's obituary, published in The Riverine Herald, 4 Dec 1878 (TROVE) he had two brothers in Australia:  Philip Nolan and John Nolan, both at Echuca.  According to their respective Australian death notices, they were the sons of a William Nolan, and his wife's maiden name was Leahy.  These can be found in Irish parish registers as follows:

 

----- WILLIAM NOLAN -----

William Nolan, m. Margaret Leahy, and had issue at least (very likely not limited to) the following:

  1. Philip Nolan, bap. at Killenaule 9 Jun 1829, they then residing at Loraga, sp: Michael and Catherine Nolan. (FMP)
  2. John Nolan, bap. 11 May 1831 at Killenaule, they then residing at Lurga (same as Loraga; presumably the nearby parish of Lurgoe), sp. William Nolan and Mary Nolan. (FMP)
  3. Michael Nolan, bap. at Killenaule 5 Oct 1837, they then residing at Lisaugh (? Lisnaganouge near Thurles?) and the sp:s were John Nolan and Mary Graham. (FMP)

 

----- WHAT THE INTERNET TELLS ME -----

Well, nothing much that I can make heads or tails of, is the answer.  James Nolan, m. to Alice Houlahan (John Patrick's parents) are often said in various trees to be the children of a John Nolan and his wife Margaret Brennan.  I've included them in the candidate list below, however, I've never seen any proof whatsoever, that this is an accurate assumption.  The same internet trees give John's father as Willliam Nolan and a Mary Dea (or Pea), of Killenaule, and this couple, too, did have a son James.

 

----- CONNECTIONS IN AUSTRALIA -----

Familiar surnames from the Killenaule area pop up in the proximity of John Patrick Nolan at Corop.  There are Leahy’s, Ryan’s, a Jeremiah Nolan (which appears to be unconnected), and a family of Cantwells.  There is, notably, a quite early Nolan/Cantwell family in Killenaule: John Nolan and Margaret Cantwell had children baptized there between 1758 and 1776, at least.

 

----- TITHE APPLOTMENTS, LAND TENURE -----

There are several Nolans in the area (unsurprisingly).  Notably, a group of 5 Nolans, who I would assume are closely related (brothers, or brothers with a father or uncle(s)) as they all live next door to each other at Lickfinn.  They are James, Michael, Thomas, Richard, and Patrick, and they all appear on the same plots of land between 1834 and 1850.  (Nat. Arch. Eire and FMP)

There is as mentioned above, also a James Nolan at Glengoole mentioned there in 1855, which may or may not be the same as the James, above (the “Lickfinn Nolans”).

A James Nolan lives in the Township of Killenaule between 1837 and 1850. (FMP and FMP)

...and a John Nolan can be found at Tullequane (Nat. Arch. Eire and FMP) at least between 1834 and 1845.

 

----- POSSIBLE CANDIDATES FOR PARENTS OF JAMES NOLAN -----

Searching quite extensively on Ancestry and FMP in terms of dates (from 1780 to 1815) but fairly narrowly geographically (Killenaule, Gortnahoe, Glengoole, Lickfinn, which are all the places mentioned explicitly that I've come across), I come up with five possible James Nolans, but I’ve not been successful at taking them back another generation, nor in connecting them to William Nolan (and his son Michael).  Based on ages alone, the first and last of these seem less likely, and the three candidates born 1807 and 1810 more so.

1. James Nolan, bap. 25th May 1780 at Killenaule, son of William Nolan and Mary Dea (Pea), residing at Killenaule.

2. James Nowlan, baptised 1807, at Gortnahoe, son of Michael Nowlan and Mary Kennedy.

3. James Nolan, bap. 27 Jun 1807 at Thurles, son of James Nolan and Bitty Dealy (who may be the same as the “Bidy” Nolan who sponsored John Nolan and Margaret Brennan’s son James, b. 1810, below).

4. James Nowlan, bap. ? Aug 1810 at Gortnahoe, son of John Nowlan and Margaret Nowlan, residing at Lickfinn.  Note that this John Nolan is often mentioned as the brother of James Nolan (b. 1780, above), and is the same the frequently mentioned John Nolan and Margaret Brennan that get cited across the internet as the parents of James Nolan who married Alice Houlahan.

5. James Nolan, bap. 7 Jan 1815 at Gortnahoe, son of Pat(rick) Nolan and Mary Shea, residing at Gortnahoe.

 

----- JOHN NOLAN AND MARGARET BRENNAN -----

Given that these are frequently taken to be the parents of John Nolan (m. Alice Houlahan), I include their children known to me here:

  1. Mary, b. at Gortnahoe, bap. 19 Jun 1807 at Killenaule, sp. James Dwyer and Juliana Kelly. (FMP)
  2. James, b. at Lickfinn, bap. ? Aug 1810 at Killenaule, sp. Bidy Nolan and Mary Nolan. (FMP)
  3. William, b. at Lickfinn, bap. 22 Mar 1812 at Killenaule, sp. Patrick St. John and Susanna Slattery. (FMP)
  4. John, b. at Lickfinn, bap. 22 May 1814 at Killenaule, sp. William Kenny and Margaret Fahy. (FMP)
  5. Patrick, b. at Lickfinn, bap. 26 Jan 1817 at Killenaule, sp. Michael (or Margaret) Fahey and Mary Meany. (FMP)
  6. Toby, b. at Gortnahoe, bap. 11 Jul 1821 at Killenaule, sp. Mary ….? (FMP)
Matt Engdahl

3 replies

I'm not adding too much to your fantastic research on the Nolan family from Co. Tipperary. I will mention a few items. There is a gap in baptismal records in Killenaule parish from 1802-1814 which is the period of time that James Nolan may have been born  https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0275 since he married in 1836. I'm not presuming he was from Killenaule since the marriage would have been held in the bride's parish. The three James Nolans in Gortnahoe parish are also good leads.

Regarding children of William Nolan and Margaret Leahy, I did find two other children on FMP. There was a William baptized in 1826 and a Mary Nolan baptized in 1827.

Good luck with your further efforts trying to link James and William.

Roger McDonnell

 

 

 

 

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Hi Roger and Eileen,

 

Thank you kindly for the tips.  I've managed to find the records for William's two older children, and the marriage record between him and Margaret Leahy (they married in 1824).  Their children were all born at Lurgoe, and baptized at Killenaule.

Typical that the registers for JUST the period I need are lost!  There's always a couple...

I did realize that I hadn't considered the traditional naming sequence, but it seems the Nolans used their own version.  If we look at the children of James and Alice, we should expect the second son to be Edward (after Alice's father) and the first daughter to be Honora (after Alice's mother).  Instead, Alice's parents' names are given to the second son and second daughter.  The third son and third daughter (omitting the repeat of Honora) are named for the parents, viz. Alice and James.

That would make the first son's and first daughter's names those of James' parents, which gives us... John and Margaret, which conveniently matches John Nolan and Margaret Brennan whom I mentioned above.

Applying the same logic to William and Margaret Leahy's brood is trickier - I don't have either of their parent's names, and I cannot locate Margaret Leahy's baptismal record.  They were married at Gortnahoe, but lived at Lurgoe, so I would assume that she's from the former and he the latter.  If the same pattern applies here as it may do for James and Alice, then William should be the son of yet another William, married to a Mary (hardly the most uncommon names...!) and Margaret's father ought to be Philip.  There are no further daughters to hint at her mother's name.

There is however another couple of hints at the pattern.  Michael Nolan's children, viz. William, Edward, Michael, and Margaret, have at least two indications.  Michael's father was William and his mother was Margaret, so the first-born son and first-born daughter follow the same pattern we've observed for James and Alice.  Further, Michael's third son is named after himself, so that, too, fits in.  This suggests that Ellen Hennessey's father should probably be Edward, but of these two I've found nothing at this point.

We can test the waters also with John Patrick's children born in Australia, but we're now in a time and place where traditional naming practices start to dissolve, which is apparent from their brood. Certainly his first daughter was named after his mother, Alice, but the second daughter was Mary, where we would expect to find Bridget which was his then-wife's mother.  The first son was named James, which could be either for his or his wife's father as they were both of that name.  That could explain why the second son, rather than the third, was named after John Patrick himself (so as not to double-up).  Both James and John Patrick, the children, die young, as the next two sons get the same exact names, now by John Patrick the elder's second wife.  Then, we find an Edward, who is most likely named after John Patrick's younger brother by that name.  From there, with the exception of a daughter Margaret which could be for John's sister by that name, the names seem selected more loosely.  Nevertheless, there are hints of maintaining tradition even at this point, and again, at least hypothetically, using the "Nolan system." 

I do feel like I'm building a house of cards with this - there's nothing black on white - but at least it's an indication that there's at least some suggestion that the John Nolan and Margaret Brennan connection could, after all, be the correct one.

 

As always, any further thoughts or pointers would be much appreciated! 

 

KR,

Matt Engdahl

Matt Engdahl

Reply

Reply
One image file up to 2 MB.