Murphy/Kavanagh

Pat, It will be difficult to solve this query having regard to the upheaval of the Irish population over time. Cromwell's Plantation Order of February 12th 1655 commanded that the inhabitants of the Counties of Kilkenny, Westmeath, Longforde, Kings County and Tipperary to be transplanted into the baronies of Tullagh, Bunratty, Islands, Corcomroe, Clondrelaw, Moyfartoe, and Ibracan in he county of Clare, and into the half barony of Bellamo, in the county of Galway. The inhabitants of the County of Kerry, to be transplanted into Inchiquin and Burren baronys in the county of Clare, and into the territories of Artagh into the Barony of Boyle, county Roscommon. Not all of the inhabitants in those counties were transplanted. Some were retained to assist the new owners of the lands. The transplanted would have intermarried, so there would be a mix of DNA. I hope this makes some sense to you! Regards,

Hi Mr McCoy,

I posted a reply to your reply a couple days ago and now I don't see it.  Did you see it?  Or do I need to re-write it?

Thanks

Par

 

Pat,

No record of your reply.

 

Regards,

Mr McCoy,

Well, let's try this again. I'm impressed with your historical knowledge and wonder if you are in Ireland or an actual historian?

As I stated in my original post, my gggrandfather Edward emigrated to the U.S. in the late 1840's. We found a record of his intention to become a citizen from Schuykill, PA in 1854, where a David Foley attested to him living in the U.S. for five years. We also found his citizenship papers from LaSalle, IL in 1860. In the 1860 census, he's listed as a coal miner.  The Schuykill area is a well known coal area, also for the Molly Maguire's history.

I would love to get your opinion on my theory that he may have come from a coal area in Ireland.  From what I've been able to gather, in eastern Tipperary/western Kilkenny there was a large coal mine in Slieveardagh, starting in the 1820's and running off and on through the 1920's. It is also my contention that his future wife and her first husband may have come from the same general area.  It seems logical (to me, at least) that three young people from Ireland that end up in a small central Illinois town may, if not actually known each other, had some connection back in the homeland. 

I have been searching through Parish registers looking for baptisms with John Foley/Ellen Cavanagh and a son Edward. I started by searching for John Foley's in Griffith's Valuation, then mapped the civil parish versus the Catholic parish.  I have also searched for Cavanagh's, Malone's and Farrell's.  Edward's wife was Elizabeth Malone Farrell, with her first husband being Michael Farrell.  I have been concentrating on the years 1828-30 because both Edward and Elizabeth were listed as 30 in the 1860 census.  We believe Edward died in 1863.  Elizabeth died in 1919 and her obituary said she immigrated with her parents at the age of 15 and was born in 1830.  I've never found any record of her parents in LaSalle.  I was hoping the yDNA info might help narrow my search area, looking for his or her baptism's and possibly Michael Farrell.  Unfortunately, there are numerous registers that have no records before the 1840's, even into the 1860's.

I would really appreciate your input.

Regards,

Pat

 

Pat,

While I live in Ireland, I am not a historian. I am in my early 80's and it helps me to pass the time!

I have many relatives in the USA and when researching my own family I had to get assistance from some of them, due to the lack of records in Ireland.

I suggest that you get the names of the sons in the families that you mentioned. This may help in identifying the origin of their parents.

I presume you are aware of the Irish family naming custom?

Let me know how you get on.

Best Wishes,

 

Mr McCoy,

I am aware of the Irish naming custom.  It seemed to have ended with my Grandfather!  The John Foley I'm looking for had at least one son, Edward.  Edward's first son was named John and his second was Edward. John had three sons, My grandfather Edward, second son John and third son Robert. My grandfather had two sons, Robert and my father, James. So, John, Edward, John, Edward, James and my brother Kevin and me!

Since I assume the original John was born around the turn of the century, up to around 1810.  If Edward was his first child and born in 1830, I doubt he would have been born after 1810.  If I can just find Edward's baptism, I should be able to find other children, before or after his birth.

Do you know if your family followed other friends or family to the same area in the U.S.?

Thanks.

Pat 

Pat,

It was the custom that one or more emigrated together and others followed.

I attach a copy of Tithe Records 1823 for the parish of Castlecomer.  There are Foley, Kavanagh, Murphy in that parish. For Foley - You have Edmund, Edward and John in different townlands.

Castlecomer was a mining area - Iron and Coal, so it is a likely that the families decided to emigrate to an area where they would be able to find suitable employment?

You should check for any mention of a "County" where citizenship was being sought. Migration years you may find in the various census records. Check two or more to see if they are similar.

Google: Tithe Records, if you have not already searched this Site

Let me know if you have any success!

 

Pat,

On checking on the surname "Foley" I found through the Tithe Records - www.nationalarchives.ie/genealogy - that the name was common in the counties of Leitrim, Roscommon and Sligo. The name "Cavanagh" and "Farrell" were also common.

There was an iron and coal mine in Arigna, Co. Roscommon which apparently had a poor history in relation to its operation.  See attached. It is possible that your family came from this area, having regard to your DNA and also due to the fact many emigrated to the USA before, during and after the famine of the 1840's.

Just a thought!

 

Mr McCoy,

I never expected you to become my personal genealogist, and please don't go out of your way worrying about my search.  Just know, I truly appreciate the information you have sent. 

I knew about the Tithe records, but I wasn't sure I would get much out of them, since I had no clue as to where I should start and no idea if my ancestors were landowners or leased their lands.

I will read the Arigna story this evening.

Where do you live?  There is a possibility I may visit Ireland in Aug/Sept.  The Fighting Irish of the University of Notre Dame will be playing in Dublin on Aug 26.  Two of my nephews are already planning on going and if I can arrange it, I would love to go also.  If I can find some "possibilities" of John Foley's to research locally, it will really solidify a decision.  If I do end up making the trip, I would love to buy you a nice dinner and pint (or two)!

I will let you know how my search commences.

Once again, thank you so much.

Pat

 

Pat,

Thanks for your reply and offer.

I live on the South West coast near Shannon airport, so it is unlikely that you will be in that area.

Best Wishes with your intended trip.