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Missing Grandfather Joseph Patrick Mclaughlin

Joseph was born in Kilrea in 1893.  Father was George McLaughlin, mother was Jane Wills.  Joseph immigrated to the US in the early1900s and married a woman from Kentucky.  We have his birth record, his marriage records, his divorce records, military draft card records and some prison records from his time behind bars in Michigan.  After he was paroled in 1930-31 he seemingly disappeared.  One thought was he might have returned to Ireland but there is nothing to indicate that to our knowledge.   Also not known is any further information about George, Jane or George's 2 brothers (we think) John and Patrick.  Names associated with the brothers are Mcrory, Rox, Ritchie, Allan and McKenzie Macdonald.  We were hoping to find someone in Ireland that might have kept accurate family records but the trail is cold.  Lots of McLaughlins, lots of Josephs, lots of Patricks.  And little else.  I have just received my Ancestry DNA results and don't recognize any names on trees I have seen,  Any ideas? 

Partirishsteve

22 replies

Partirishsteve,

I notice from Joseph’s birth certificate that his father - George - was resident in Glasgow in 1893. I also notice that George and Jane Wills were married in Port Glasgow in 1881 (GROS ref 574/65). I can see the birth of a Jane McLaughlin to parents named McLaughlin & Wills, in Greenock East (ie beside Port Glasgow) in 1882 (GROS ref 564/2/258). So clearly there’s a strong Scottish connection here. If you can’t find the family in Ireland then possibly they were all in Scotland? Was George born there? Have you searched the Scottish records for the family, and for the missing relatives?

You should get George’s parents names and whether they were alive or dead at that time, from the 1881 marriage cert on Scotlandspeople.

I can’t see the family in Ireland in the 1901 census, so that also makes me think they had left.

Some of the surnames you have mentioned as linked to the family seem more Scottish to me than Irish eg Ritchie, Allan and McKenzie Macdonald, though of course some names are common in both countries due to migration between Scotland and Ireland and vice versa, over the years.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

There are several trees on Ancestry that show Jane' surname as Wills and Wolsey. Joseph's marriage record shows Wolsey.

Record from RootsIreland (paid subscription). Maybe why George was living in Glasgow

Name:Joseph MclaughlinDate of Birth:
  Date of Baptism:11-Jun-1893
Address:Parish/District:KILREA
Gender:MaleCountyCo. Derry
Denomination:Roman Catholic
Father:George MclaughlinMother:Jane Wolsey
Occupation:
Sponsor 1 /Informant 1:Nancy KaneSponsor 2 /Informant 2:
Notes:
REV B O'LOUGHLIN C.C. ILLEGITIMATE.

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Some trees suggest this is Jane's baptismal record.

Name:Jane WillsDate of Birth:
  Date of Baptism:8-Mar-1854
Address:Parish/District:BALLYCASTLE (RAMOAN)
Gender:FemaleCountyCo. Antrim
Denomination:Roman Catholic
Father:Daniel WillsMother:Ellen Law
Occupation:
Sponsor 1 /Informant 1:Ann BlackSponsor 2 /Informant 2:
Notes:
REV J MCGLENNON ILLEGITIMATE.

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Trees suggest this is George.

NameGeorge McLaughlin
Baptism Age0
Event TypeBaptism
Birth Date1848
Baptism Date24 Sep 1848
Baptism PlaceDrumaul, Antrim, Ireland
Residence PlaceBallytastown
Parish VariantsConnor, Drumall, Drumaul, Antrim, Connor, etc., Drummaul, Randalstown
DioceseDown and Connor
FatherJames McLaughlin
MotherSusan McCory

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One tree shows this as his obituary. Name Michael for parent doesn't work.

NameJoseph McLaughlin
Death Age44
Birth Dateabt 1893
Death Date13 Nov 1937
Death PlaceDetroit, Michigan, USA
ParentsMichael

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mtvrdk@gmail.com

The names James McLaughlin and Susan Mcrory appear on George’s 1881 marriage. So the 1848 baptism in Drummaul, Co Antrim seems likely to be right. The family lived in Ballytresna townland then:

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633168?locale=en#page/53/mode/1up

Susan and family in 1901 in Maghereagh, Randalstown:

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Randalstown/Maghereagh/919817/

I think this is Susan(na)’s death in 1908:

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1908/05498/4539983.pdf

Can’t see John’s death 1881-1901.

Same family in 1911 in Ballygrooby, Randlastown. Note 2 children born in Scotland:

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Randalstown/Ballygrooby/110901/

John McLoughlin’s marriage to Jane Rock in 1887:

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1887/10807/5941295.pdf

Susan McLaughlin born Old Kilpatrick (Dunbartonshire) 1896 (GROS ref: 501/119).

Jane McLaughlin born 1892, Old Kilpatrick (GROS ref 501/516).

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

1901 Census- Could this be Joseph?

Residents of a house 19 in Fair Hill Street (Ballycastle, Antrim)

Mc HenryMary Ann C23FemaleDaughterRoman CatholicCo Antrim-Read and write-Not Married-
Mc HenryJohn48MaleHead of FamilyRoman CatholicCo AntrimGeneral LabourerRead-Married-
Mc HenryPatrick21MaleSonRoman CatholicCo AntrimTailorRead and write-Not Married-
Mc HenryJohn19MaleSonRoman CatholicCo AntrimLabourer in Coal MinerRead and write-Not Married-
Mc HenryCharles16MaleSonRoman CatholicCo AntrimShoemakerRead and write-Not Married-
McLaughlinJoseph7MaleVisitorRoman CatholicCo DerryScholarRead and write-Not Married-
Mc HenryMary49FemaleWifeRoman CatholicCo Antrim-Read-Married

mtvrdk@gmail.com

Wow!  You people are awesome!  There is a lot of information here to look into further.   I want to thank you all.   Let me add.......I just recently, within the last 2 years, discovered that my grandfather was an immigrant to the US from Ireland.  I am 73.  I always considered my father as an AH as he ran off and left my mother with a baby, me, and had no contact with me.  So I basically wrote off that side of my family history until recently when I got in contact with some of the McLaughlan family members and started learning more of that part of my "DNA". One of my cousins has been searching/researching the missing grandfather for decades and coming up empty so she has much of the information you have provided, not sure how much.  The problem seems to be confirming the names and their supposed relationship to us.  I.E., one of the records one of you provided shows the death of Joseph to be in 1937 but that is not "our" Joseph because the parents listed on the death certificate were incorrect.  Also,  Joseph's mother's name is clearly shown as "Wills" on his birth record yet the name "Wolsey" shows up elsewhere.  Which I think is highly probable  a result of a handwriting difference and misreading of a signature.  The "i" in "Wills"  could easily be seen as an "o" if the "i" were looped in the process of making the signature.  Anyway, I have forwarded this information to my long lost cousin and we will see what can be discovered.  Thank you for your help.   

Steve.  

Partirishsteve

To add to your files, George had the following siblings (found on RootsIreland)-James 1851, John 1853, Peter 1857, Patrick 1860, Michael 1862

This might be Patrick

Date of Marriage:22-Jun-1896  
Parish / District:ANTRIMCounty:Co. Antrim
HusbandWife
Name:PatrickMclaughlinMargaretMcfarland
Address:Clyde Bank ScotlandRandalstown
Denomination:Roman CatholicRoman Catholic
Occupation:LABOURERHOUSEKEEPER
Age:FaFa
Status:Bachelor (Previously unmarried)Spinster (Previously unmarried)
Husband's FatherWife's Father
Name:JamesMclaughlinJamesMcfarland
Address:
Denomination:
Occupation:LABOURERLABOURER
Husband's MotherWife's Mother
Name:
Address:
Denomination:
Occupation:
Witness 1Witness 2
Name:PatrickMcnallyIsabellaKing
Address:
Notes:
Church:  RANDALSTOWN Roman Catholic
D MCHISTER MGR:MARRIAGE REGISTERED ON 23 06 1896 MGR:WIFES FATHER
DECEASED.

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Peter- NOTE HIS FATHER JAMES WAS STILL ALIVE IN 1896. HE WOULD HAVE DIED BETWEEN 1896 and 1901

Date of Marriage:12-Jan-1896  
Parish / District:BALLYMENACounty:Co. Antrim
HusbandWife
Name:PeterMclaughlinSarahMoore
Address:Groggan RandalstownChurch Street Ballymena
Denomination:Roman CatholicRoman Catholic
Occupation:LETTER CARRIERWEAVER
Age:3530
Status:Bachelor (Previously unmarried)Spinster (Previously unmarried)
Husband's FatherWife's Father
Name:JamesMclaughlinDavidMoore
Address:
Denomination:
Occupation:SURFACE MANWEAVER
Husband's MotherWife's Mother
Name:
Address:
Denomination:
Occupation:
Witness 1Witness 2
Name:JamesPhillipsMargaretHiggins
Address:
Notes:
Church:  BALLYMENA Roman Catholic
BY LICENCE REV A MACMULLAN.

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mtvrdk@gmail.com
NameGeorge McLaughlin
GenderMale
Death Date11 Feb 1906
CemeterySaint MacNissis Roman Catholic Churchyard
Burial or Cremation PlaceRandalstown, County Antrim, Northern Ireland
Has Bio?Y
FatherJames McLaughlin
URLhttps://www.findagrave.com/memorial/200123261/george-mclaughlin

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James death record from Irishgenealogy

Name:James Mcloughlin
Date of Death:15/02/1897
Group Registration ID:4173820
SR District/Reg Area:Antrim
Deceased Age at Death:71
View record images: Image 1 Image 2

If I identified the correct gravesite above, this would be George's death record. He is identified as a bachelor.

Name:George Mclaughlin
Date of Death:1906
Group Registration ID:4825098
SR District/Reg Area:Antrim
Deceased Age at Death:55
View record images: Image 1 Image 2

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Buried in same grave as father

Peter McLaughlin

Birth

1858

Death

24 Nov 1934 (aged 75–76)

Burial

Saint MacNissis Roman Catholic Churchyard

Randalstown, County Antrim, Northern Ireland

Memorial ID

200123068 

mtvrdk@gmail.com

Currently this site has an issue copying text and opening links. You might want to search Irishgenealogy and findagrave.

mtvrdk@gmail.com

I live about a mile from St MacNissis church and graveyard in Randalstown, so if you want any photos of the gravestones, I can arrange that.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Thank you all for the added information.   It's a bit overwhelming.   

Elwyn,   that would be fantastic if you could take photos.    But.......what's it going to cost me?  :)

Partirishsteve

Partirishsteve,

No cost. Shouldn't take too long to find them.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Elwyn,   ......Well, thank you!   Looking forward to seeing them!  

Partirishsteve

Elwyn,  I haven't heard from you.   I thought I would wait until after the holidays to contact you.  Were you unable to locate the gravestones or have you been too busy?   Just curious. 

Steve

Partirishsteve

Steve,

Sorry about the delay. I have been a bit busy and we have had about 4 inches of snow here in the past week or so, meaning half the gravestones are covered.  A thaw seems to be on the way so I'll try and get round to this later in the week.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Ok, thanks.  No hurry.  

Partirishsteve

Steve,

Photos are attached. In addition to the 3 names you provided, the grave also contains Susan died/buried 29.3.1908; Jennie 10.5.1923 & Sarah 17.2.1941. If you need help with making out the full wording on the gravestone, let me know.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Elwyn, thank you so much! This is so interesting! I will forward these pictures to relatives.

The cemetery is beautiful. One thing that I noticed immediately was the amount of family history on the gravestones. Here in the US its usually just the name and birth/death dates. I cant make out the wording on the top, arched right above James's name. I think I can make out the names and dates of the others. Another question.....the stone has dates from the 1800s to 1941......did someone have to come to the cemetery and add the names and dates when another family member passed? And do you know the age of the church and cemetery?

BTW, me and a half brother are in the process of applying for Irish citizenship. We are getting required documents together now. One thing that is required is a death certificate for our grandfather, Joseph, who is the one I mentioned in my original post. As I stated, we don't know what happened to him after he was released from prison so at this point we don't have a death certificate. But we are using the services of Irish Helper and he said that prison records might be a good substitute. Still working on that. I'm not sure what I will do with Irish citizen status but it's a matter of principle and pride at this point. If this country keeps going on the path it is on now, another passport may indeed come in handy though.

Again, thank you so much for taking time to get the pictures. I really appreciate it.

Steve

Partirishsteve

Steve,

The arched words at the top are “In loving memory”. The amount of wording varies in Ireland. You do sometimes see just “The SMITH family” with no other information but perhaps the folk in Randalstown were slightly better off and so put more on their gravestones.

General thoughts about the grave are that the family were quite well off. The average labourer couldn’t afford a gravestone at all and were often buried in unmarked graves. (The family would know where the grave was but there would be no marker). Not only does this plot have a gravestone, it has surrounding metal work which you can see in at least one of the photos. Stonemasons charged by the word, so altogether you have an expensive grave. That in turn tells you the family were probably quite well off. Or someone in America paid for the grave. That was quite common.

Here’s a link to that family in the 1901 census:

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Randalstown/Maghereagh/919817/

1911:

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Sharvogues/Magheralane/111298/

Around 1901 the family had a total of about 20 acres in Maghereagh, split between 2 separate plots (plots 4c and 6A). The farmhouse was on 6A. 20 acres is not a huge farm by Irish standards but you could support a family reasonably well on that here.

My contact in the parish says that James McLaughlin was also known as O’Laughlin in the plot records. That’s not unusual. The Mc & O’ prefixes on Irish names are often omitted or interchanged.

The names Jane and Jennie/Jenny are also interchangeable here. We have loads of those eg Peggy/Margaret; Sarah/Sally & Agnes/Nancy

You ask when the church and graveyard opened. I have attached pages from “Sweet Drummaul” by Patrick O’Kane which gives a little background. But basically the first church (the one in the photo) was built in 1784, and extended in the 1820s. The graveyard wasn’t opened till 1848. Prior to 1848 families had a choice of half a dozen other graveyards in the area eg Cranfield, Old Drummaul, Milltown and Shane’s Castle.

The church in the gravestone photos is no longer in use. The parish has a splendid new church nearby, built about 20 years ago.

You ask about adding names to gravestones. That certainly happens and you see gravestones with blank space for later additions. In this case the dates are in strict chronological order, so there may have been additions over the years. On the other hand the carving looks remarkably even and that would tend to suggest that all the engraving was done at the same time ie after the last death in 1941. Hard to tell one way or the other.

It’s widely reported in the press here in Ireland that there has been a significant surge in applications for Irish nationality by US citizens since Donald Trump came to power. So you are not alone in your aspiration. As a genealogist it is interesting to note that for 300 years Irish people yearned to go to America but now Americans yearn to emigrate to Ireland. Strange old world at times.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Elwyn, thank you again for this additional information. Your knowledge is impressive. :) And yes, Americans seemed to have forgotten the blood, sweat and tears that have been spent creating a democracy that other countries now have to show us what its all about. It's sad and embarrassing to say the least. It feels like the whole country has gone insane.

Another question.....is it possible that there are records, maybe held by the church and cemetery, that would indicate living relatives of those listed on James McLaughlin's headstone? 1941 is not really that long ago, I would think there are still people in the area that have some kind of connection with those people listed. I forwarded everything you have sent to me to a cousin that has been looking for Joseph for decades and she is skeptical that this James is actually related to us. Mostly, I think, because she has followed supposed ancestry trails that have resulted in dead ends or questionable proofs. As she stated, unless there is some sort of proof that this James and George can be shown to be directly related to Joseph she is not ready to accept that these are who we are looking for. If we could find living relatives of the people on the headstone there might be a possibility of filling in the gaps. What do you think?

On another note, one of my best friend's family name is Michaelree. His mother's name was Margaret and she did indeed go by Peggy.

Thanks

Steve

Partirishsteve

Partirishsteve,

I asked my contact in the church if he knew of any McLaughlins attending today, especially any connected to that grave. He didn’t know of anyone. And he doesn’t have any other records for that grave.

I notice there’s no sign of recent maintenance on the grave (in a graveyard that generally is well maintained). Suggests there’s no-one local living here now.

Would descendants living here now be able to help? Probably not. Sadly from your perspective most Irish people aren’t that interested in their family trees (we know broadly where we come from). The average family here can go back about 3 generations (ie to around 1900) and then it gets a bit confused for most. They wouldn’t normally know anything about an ancestor born in the 1840s.

The people in the information you have provided seem to have moved around a lot. Not unknown but unusual. One scenario seems to have George who lived in Drummaul (Randalstown) marrying Jane from Ballycastle (40 miles away) and then having a child in Kilrea (20 miles from Randalstown). Why would someone in Randalstown have a child baptised in Kilrea? That would be unusual and it’s possible therefore that these are different McLaughlins. Folk here didn’t hesitate to go to Scotland or America to work but in Ireland they tended to stay in the location they were brought up.

Scotland, notably the Clyde Valley area, was easy and cheap to get to and had loads of jobs. Ireland has few natural resources and so the industrial revolution largely passed it by (save for linen factories and ship building in Belfast). The Clyde Valley was full of coal mines, steel making, railways, sugar importing factories and so on. Thousands of jobs there. If someone disappears from the records in Co Antrim, the first place to look for them is Scotland.

A problem that you face is the general lack of records in Ireland. Drummaul (Randlastown) has records from 1828 or thereabouts but Kilrea’s don’t start till 1846. Other parishes are even later.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Thank you Elwyn. Not the answer I was hoping for but at least we have a decent idea of the reality of the issues that seemingly will continue to be unresolved, 100% anyway. I really appreciate your time and effort. I'm still recovering from Christmas expenditures but hopefully I'll have a little left over next month to make a contribution to your organization. Being a volunteer I'm assuming you get personal pleasure in researching and educating people like me. It's so nice to have people like you when the world is so full of Aholes right now. :)

Steve

Partirishsteve

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