McMonagle - Need local knowledge of Northern Donegal

I understand that Letterkenny is in the parish of Conwal in the Barony of Kilmacrenan.  I don't fully understand how barony's are used.  Is it feasible that McMonigle was from Letterkenny and because it was in the Barony of Kilmacrenan someone would have said in his obituary that he was from Kilmacrenan? 

Hi Dave K:

 

I'm going to forward this on to 2 people with Donegal connections who may be able to assist.  They will reply to this message. 

 

Kind regards,

 

Jane

Thanks Jane!

Seamus- thank you so much!  I'm so appreciative of your research and local knowledge. This is very helpful.  I've never been to Ireland and am learning as much as I can as I do family history research, but your local knowledge is extremely helpful to me.  On my bucket list is to get to Ireland one day and visit the lands where my 2nd great grandparents were from. Thank you for all the maps. I will review those more closely later.  Thank you for letting me know you are from Kerrykeel. It's fun to see how close that is to Glenvar.

Here's a link to wikipedia talking about Glenvar Heights, a neighborhood in Miami Florida.  Within that neighborhood, there is also a small lake named Glenvar.  This was named by John McManigal's (spelling in America) grandson who moved to Florida from Pennsylvania.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenvar_Heights,_Florida

Seamus- would you think it is a pretty safe assumption that either Mary or John had to have been from Glenvar?  With naming buildings Glenvar, I can't think of any other possible explanation. If Mary is the one from Glenvar then perhaps John named his building after his wife's homeland in a romantic gesture.   

How is the name Glenvar used?  Do I understand correctly that it is both a townland but also the name of the valley? So, would someone from Bunnaton or Carrowreach say they were from Glenvar? 

The last few days, I have been thinking the same as you- that Mary Gallagher may have been from Glenvar- either Bunnaton or Carrowreagh.  I'm going by memory, but I think I found a John Gallagher in Bunnaton in the 1901 or 1910 census but there are no Gallaghers in the Griffiths valuation.   And I have been thinking that John McMonigle probably came from Kilmacrenan or Letterkenny.

Is it possible that John McMonigle came from both Letterkenny (as per his niece) and from Kilmacrenan (as per his obituary)?  Meaning either he really came from Letterkenny but the Barony is Kilmacrenan-- or are Barony's not really referenced that way?  Or perhaps he is really from Kilmacrenan but at times he said he was from the closest big city to his American niece because she had never been to Ireland and maybe only knew of the bigger city? 

Last question for now-  any thoughts on where John and Mary may have met?  I would have expected them to have come from the same townland since in the mid 1850's they would have traveled by foot. I assume they were very poor.  Would someone from Glenvar even have had the opportunity to meet someone from Kilmacrenan or Letterkenny? Or is it more likely that they would have met on the boat or in Pennsylvania?   (I realize we can't know the answer to where they really met, but just wondering what is more likely since Glenvar and Letterkenny are about 20 miles apart. 

I've just joined this conversation (thanks Seamus for the link).
I am one of the 2 Gallagher families in Carrowreagh... There's still only 2...
My dad was James Gallagher.
I know of Mary's in my ancestry but nit sure of a Catherine.
I will post the link to the Friends of Glenvar Facebook page and maybe someone there will be able to put more light on the McMonagle connection, although I've never heard if the name being in Glenvar.
As for the use of the name - I would only say Carrowreagh to someone who knew Glenvar, otherwise I'd just say I was from Glenvar.
A few years ago I tried to find the Glenvar in Florida, I got to the general area but unfortunately I didn't have much time as I was catching a flight back home.

Thank you again Seamus! You are very kind to help us!

Hello Gallagher from Glenvar! (Sorry the post does not show your name). I’m excited to correspond with you and see if we are related.
Dave Kane. My second great grandparents were Michael Kane and Catherine Gallagher. Michael was from county Tipperary and it appears Catherine and her sister Mary were from Glenvar.
How did you know to look for Glenvar in Florida? Did you just find it online or is there a family story about it being named by one of your ancestors?

Just found your name on friends of Ireland. Hello Sarah Gallagher!

Oops. Meant to say on friends of Glenvar on Facebook.  

hi Dave

I was just googling Glenvar whilst I was in the States - there is also a Glenvar in Roanoke County, Virginia which I was googling - didn't get to visit this.  

In Virginia the high school is called Glenvar High School.

There is a Glenvar Farm in Australia but they don't have a connection with Donegal.

Sarah

 

Very interesting Sarah. How fun if it turns out your ancestors are the ones who named Glenvar in Florida.  Do you have any family history going back a ways?  We’ve never been able to identify any other Gallagher’s in the family who immigrated other than the sisters Cathy and Mary. There were probably brothers who stayed in Glenvar.  

There was a McMonagle family living in Carrowreagh, next door to Joe Doherty's family home. My friend didn't have much other information other than that they were originally from Townawilly near Donegal Town

Thank you for your help Seamus and Sarah. 

Sarah- do you know the name of your paternal grandfather or any other Gallaghers beyond your father James?  There is a family in the 1911 census named James and wife Sarah. 

Also Seamus and Sarah- may I bounce a theory off you?

My cousin said there were two more names that the family often referenced.  Ward and McCloskey. He said he thought maybe McCloskey was John McManigle's mothers maiden name.  

So, I think John McMonigle was from Letterkenny.  I think Mary Gallagher was from Glenvar- probably Carrowreagh.  I think John McMonigle's mother was a McCloskey from Glenvar and his parents got married in Glenvar- since they would have married in the bride's church.  I think the married couple then frequently visited the McCloskey family in Glenvar and that is how their son John McMonigle met his future wife, Mary Gallagher. 

In the 1858 Griffiths valuation for Carrowreagh, there is a James Gallagher and a John Gallagher living on plots of land next to each other.  Just a couple plots of land away, there is a Conrad McCluskey.

In the 1901 census for Carrowreagh, there are 3 Gallagher families. Only James age 74 is old enough to have been listed in the 1858 Griffiths valuation.  So, James would have been born around 1827 and would have been about 40 at the time of the Griffiths.  There is a Mary, head of household age 55, so she would have been about 12 at the time of the Griffiths.  She could really be older and the widow of John or John could have moved.

Also in 1901 3 listings down from the Gallaghers is an Anthony McCloskey age 55 with wife and 4 kids.  He would have been about 12 at the Griffiths, so his father is likely Conrad McCluskey.

In the 1911 census for Carrowreagh – James Gallagher 88, Mary wife 71.  4 adult kids.  Then separate house James Gallagher age 39 and spouse Sarah age 20.  They don’t have kids yet in 1911.  

In the 1911 census for Carrowreagh for McCloskeys- Anthony McCloskey is 72 as is wife Mary.  Married son John and wife and son John age 6 are there. Plus 2 adult single kids.

 

So, Sarah- I’m thinking if the James and Sarah Gallagher mentioned in the 1911 census are your ancestors perhaps they would be your great grandparents?  Or maybe great great grandparents?

Thanks again, 

Dave Kane

 

hi Dave

 

JAmes and Sarah Gallagher werre my grandfather and grandmother

I've not lloked at |Griffith's in great details until now....James and JOhn Gallagher were brothers.  It looks like James then bought the land belonging to James Cullen and moved over.

 

Its facinating to see the history in action!!

The 3 Gallagher's in the 1901 census 

 

1. Bridget Gallagher and Loghlin Diver - I don't know who this might be...

2. James and Mary - they are cousins of mine

3. Mary with the Marleys and Deeneys - this is my direct ancestor - Mary would've been my greatgrandmother.  Her husband was John.  I think her maiden name was Doherty.

Mary Gallagher was her daughter, she was a dressmaker who lived in America for sometime, and returned later to Carrowreagh. My grandfather died in 1918 (The great Flu) and left behind 6 children, Mary came back to help her sister-in-law Sarah.  One of the 6 children was my father James.  He had a twin brother who dies aged 7.

 "James Gallagher age 39 and spouse Sarah age 20.  They don’t have kids yet in 1911. " - they were my grandparents - Sarah was originally Sweeney from Tyrladen .

 

I hope some of this makes sense.....  

 

I'll keep digging this end - I find it all so fascinating - however I wished I had asked more questions and listened to the older folks when they were talking about times gone by !

Sarah

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you Sarah!  Very interesting!

 

Hi Seamus and Sarah, 

I am Dave Kane's sister, Cathy (Kane) Wallace. Thank you so much for all your help!! We have been searching on this family line for decades and the two of you have provided us with some great information that may help us to finally find our Irish ancestors on this branch of our family tree. 

Sarah, you mention that your grandparents were James and Sarah (Sweeney) Gallagher. I was so excited to see the name Sweeney in connection with the Gallaghers. The witnesses for the marriage of our great-great-uncle and aunt, John McManigal and Mary Gallagher, in Philadelphia in 1858 were James Sweeney and Rose McFadden. We have read that it was traditional in Ireland for the marriage witnesses to be cousins of the bride and groom. I'm not sure how feasible that would have been after immigrating to America but maybe some of their extended family came across the ocean too. And McFadden is a name that appears in this record Parish family names in the Parish of Conwal (Letterkenny) in 1850's that you shared with us, Seamus. So perhaps their marriage witnesses were family members - Sweeney from the Gallagher side of the family and McFadden from the McManigal side of the family.

I also have a paper with a family tree that one of our great-aunts brought to a family reunion in 1987 in Williamsport, Pennsylvania. She listed the first wife of Michael Kane as Catherine "Sweeney" but then crossed off the surname "Sweeney" and wrote Catherine "Gallagher" instead. Then she wrote Mary "Sweeney???" with several question marks for his second wife (who we now know was actually Mary Horan). I have often thought that she must have been remembering someone mentioning the name Sweeney in connection with the Gallagher family. 

Seamus and Sarah, perhaps you can tell us about the traditions for witnesses and naming conventions in Ireland. We have read that the witnesses for a wedding were usually cousins of the bride and groom and the sponsors for baptisms (christenings) were usually siblings or siblings-in-law of the parents of the baby. Were these customary traditions in County Donegal? 

We have also read that the following naming patterns were used. Would you find this to hold true in County Donegal? 

A traditional naming pattern was often used by Irish parents until the later 19th century:

• First son usually named for the father's father
• Second son usually named for the mother's father
• Third son usually named for the father
• Fourth son usually named for the father's eldest brother
• Fifth son usually named for the mother's eldest brother
• First daughter usually named for the mother's mother
• Second daughter usually named for the father's mother
• Third daughter usually named for the mother 
• Fourth daughter usually named for the mother's eldest sister
• Fifth daughter usually named for the father's eldest sister. 

Thank you again for all of your help!

Cathy