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McKechnie

Further to my Daniel Rankin post, there aremarriages relating to the name McKechnie (or similar) that I was unable to find in the Church of Ireland marriage indices, probably because they belonged to a different denomination. Here are some of the details that I do have, all from Scottish records. The family appears to have moved from Ireland to Scotland about 1859. They first appear in the Scottish records in the 1861 census.

1. James McKechnie m. Mary Logan about 1837. Both were born in Ireland, about 1815. James McKechnie was the son of Robert (?) McKechnie. Mary Logan was the daughter of John Logan and Helen McDonald. They had four children that I know of: Robert, James, Martha and Mary.

2. James McKechnie (b 1815) had an elder brother, Robert, born in Ireland about 1812. Robert McKechnie m. Mary Simpson and their children - Robert, Fanny and William - were all born in Ireland in the late 1830s.

3. Robert McKechnie (son of James McKechnie and Mary Logan, above) m. Agnes McMullan in Ireland on 18 Oct 1859, according to the Scottish birth certificate for one of their children. I have been unable to find a record of this marriage in Irish marraige records and I would have thought, given the date, that it should be there,

There is a vague suggestion that the family lived in Antrim before moving to Scotland, and that they may have moved to Antrim from the Isle of Jura in Scotland. Jura records are extant only from 1803 and there is no trace of them after that date. Moreover, Robert is a name that is virtually unknown in the records of the Argyll islands in the 18th and 19th centuries.

The surname McKechnie as such does not appear in Griffiths Valuations. There is a possiblity, based on the New York State 1850 census, that the name may have been McKinney (or similar) when the family lived in Ireland. Interestingly, some 10% of the people bearing the surname McKechnie in the 1881 Scottish census gave Ireland as their birthplace. I would have expected some of them or relatives remaining in Ireland to have been captured by Griffiths - and they may well have been, but under a different spelling of the surname.

GordonMcKechnie

11 replies

Gordon,

Could the 1859 marriage have been RC? I see quite a few McMullans in the 1901 Irish census and many were RC. If so, that might explain the marriage not being in the civil records as RC marriages were only included from 1864 onwards.

Usually Scottish birth certs, from 1861 onwards, contain both the place and date the parents married. Do I assume that in this case there is no place given for the parents marriage on the birth cert? And if so, are there any other Scottish born children whose birth certs could be checked for the same information?

For the pre 1845 marriages, you really need to know precisely where they took place to have much chance of finding them. Some of the Presbyterian and other denomination records are on-line on the UHF and rootsireland sites but many are not. If you have searched them and not found the marriages then that suggests they married in a church whose records have either been lost or which have not been put on-line. (There are many such churches).

One approach can be to see if they ever claimed under the Poor Law in Scotland. If they did, then the Poor Law file usually records their parish of origin in Ireland. Records for the Glasgow area are in the Mitchell Library.

http://www.glasgowlife.org.uk/libraries/the-mitchell-library/archives/collections/poor-law-archives/Pages/default.aspx

McKinney could be a variation of McKechnie though it’s more commonly regarded as the Irish version of McKenzie. McKinney is reportedly how the name was pronounced in both Scotland and Ireland in the 1600s when large numbers of Scots moved to Ireland. However the anglicised Scottish spelling later used the letter “z” to convey the “y” sound. That in due course led to a different pronunciation in Scotland but it is reportedly the same name. You get the same problem with Dalyell and Dalziel which should both be pronounced the same way though sometimes they are not. Menzies is the same being pronounced correctly as “Minnus”.

For the family to have come from Jura is quite possible. The major migration from that part of Scotland to Ireland was in the late 1500s and early 1600s when tenants of the Islay McDonalds came in significant numbers to the Earl of Antrim’s estate in north east Co. Antrim.  Many came from Islay, Jura and Kintyre and settled around Ballycastle, the Glens of Antrim and the hinterland.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Thank you, Elwyn. The Scottish birth certificates for the children of the 1859 marriage that I have seen give only "Ireland" as the place of the marriage. There are also discrepancies as to the precise date of the marriage itself, which gives rise to some other questions. In Scotland the family appears to have been Church of Scotland.

Your reply opened the possiblity to me that the move from Jura to Antrim (if it did indeed happen) might have taken place a lot longer ago that I had been thinking about. I would never have thought family lore would go that far back!

I still find it curious that in the 1881 Scottish census some 10% of people with the surname "McKechnie" gave their place of birth as Ireland, and yet the name appears pretty well absent from Irish records of the mid-19th century. They must have been called something else. I had not realised that McKinney was an Irish version of McKenzie. The McKenzie name in Scotland comes from rather farther north while McKechnie (and its variants and antecedents) are from farther south where there was much more contact with Ireland. The name McKechnie (spelled as such) is recorded in Lanarkshire, Stirlingshire and Dunbartonshire from the mid-17th century. In Argyll (including Islay and Jura), the earlier form was Mac Each Arna, anglicised variously as McEachern, McEachran, Cochrane...  In the mid-19th century, records show that even some of these forms of the name were further anglicised to McKechnie. This happened to the Jura MacEacherns (for example) in their entirety.

The origin of the name seems to have been southern Kintyre - ref Ard Echde and Ptolemy's Epidion Akron (the Mull of Kintyre) - and possibly predating the invasion of Scotland by the Q-Celtic Gaels in the 5th century and derived from the P-Celtic horse tribe - Epidii. It has been suggested than the original Gaelic was thus Mac Each Thigh Earna - son of the horse lords.

I gather (I'm sorry, I cannot find my source just now) that the territory of the "Horse Tribe" may have encompassed parts of Ulster as well as Kintyre and that the name may thus have come down in Irish history in different forms to what developed in Scotland. But all that is well beyond the limits of records!

GordonMcKechnie

Gordon,

Well if Robert McKechnie did marry Agnes McMullan in Ireland in 1859, and it was a Presbyterian or other non RC ceremony, then it ought to be in the civil indexes (which start in April 1845). I see no sign of it there. If there’s no place given and the date varies on the Scottish birth certificates then possibly they made the information up.

Can’t help you with what McKechnie was in Ireland. I agree that it’s not common here. You do see names changing when people move from Ireland to Scotland. Typically McDonnell changes to MacDonald, Ellen to Helen, and so on. But I really can’t be sure about McKechnie. Nothing leaps out at me and I can’t see anything on the internet that suggests a compelling answer.

Not sure how far you can safely trace the surname McKechnie back. Prior to around 1400 there were no surnames in Scotland or Ireland. It was nearly always patronymics, so trying to link it directly to the 5th century P & Q Celts might not be very reliable.

DNA testing might help I suppose.

People have been travelling back and forth between Scotland and Ireland since the retreat of the last ice age. You rightly mention the 5th century arrival (led by Fergus Mor, head of the Scotus tribe from Antrim who set up his capital at Dunadd, near Oban. Scotland gets its name from the Scotus Irish tribe!). Then, by way of example, we have Robert the Bruce taking refuge in a cave on Rathlin Island for a year in the 1300s – one of many caves all over the British Isles he seems to have lived in. His wife was the daughter of one of the Earls of Ulster, so presumably he felt safe on Rathlin which was considered Scottish at the time. He has a blue plaque on Rathlin commemorating the fact he lived there for a year! But the big change came in the 16th century when a McDonnell of Islay married into the Bisset family in Co. Antrim (who were originally from Galloway). The McDonald/McDonnell family set up home at Dunluce Castle on the Antrim coast, overlooking Islay. Randal, the 1st Earl of Antrim had been educated for a time with King James I (and 6th of Scotland) in Arran and so, though Catholic, was a close friend of the king and trusted to be loyal to the Crown. According to Eagles Wings, by Dr David Hume MBE (page 42);

“There is an interesting cultural mix relating to the Plantation period. Under their land re-grant the MacDonnells had to bring a certain number of Scots settlers over to Ulster. Where previously those they had brought from Kintyre had been Roman Catholic, a Lowland plantation had occurred in Kintyre in the interim and the new settlers were Presbyterian. The evidence of this can be seen in names and religious denomination in the area today.

Until the building of the Antrim coast road in the nineteenth century it is probably true to say that there was more connection between the Glens of Antrim and the land on the other side of the Straits of Moyle than there was with many other parts of the north of Ireland. Geographical isolation helped continue the ties of centuries. Indeed, whenever the MacDonnells felt under pressure from those around them in Antrim, they would light bonfires on the cliff tops and support would come from Kintyre and elsewhere on the opposite coast across the straits of Moyle.”

So there’s reasonably reliable documentation showing that large numbers of settlers from Islay, Jura and Kintyre in particular, came to north east Co Antrim in the late 1500s and early 1600s, at the instruction or encouragement of their MacDonald chief. (At one time the McDonnell Antrim estate encompassed a quarter of county Antrim). The later Kintyre settlers were themselves relatively newly arrived in Kintyre, having been moved there from Renfrew and Dunbartonshire.

So as I say, whilst your ancestors might have arrived in Ireland at any time, the late 1500s and early 1600s was the time when the really large numbers came. In the 1600s, 100,000 Scots settled in Ireland, representing about 10% of the entire Scottish population. From the 1700s onwards, Scots settlers in Ireland were leaving rather than arriving, bound in the main for America. So whilst a McKechnie arrival in the 1700s or even 1800s is possible, such a settlement would have been bucking the general tend which, by then, was to leave Ireland for both economic and political reasons. (The native Roman Catholics tended not to start migrating from Ireland till the 1800s, but the Presbyterian Scots settlers started 100 years before that).

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Elwyn,

I suspect you are right that the couple allegedly married in 1859 in Ireland made it up.

For their eight children that I am aware of here is what they said about their marriage on the children's birth certificates (all were born in Port Glasgow, Renfrewshire):

1. Mary Jane  b 29 Aug 1859. m not given on the certificate

2. Martha b. 5 Feb 1861. m January 1859 Ireland

3. James b. 4 May 1863. m January 1859 Ireland

4. Hugh b 14 Mar 1865. m February 1859 Ireland

5. Robert b 7 Apr 1867. m 15 January 1859 Ireland

6. John b 29 Sep 1869 m January 1858 Ireland

7. Agnes b 6 Sep 1871 m 18 October 1859 Ireland

8. Eliza b 27 Aug 1873. m January 1859 Ireland

Looking at other contemporary Scottish birth certificates where the parents were (allegedly) married in Ireland, I also do not see a specific place - just Ireland; unlike for Scottish marriages where a more precise place is given

On some of the above birth certificates the mother's maiden name is written as McMillan rather than McMullan. McMillan is also the spelling used elsewhere including on most of the children's marriage certificates.

The parents names are given on Agnes McMullan's death certificate as Hugh McMullan (Farm Greive) and Ann McMullan m.s. Orr

I thought I might be able to find something about denomination affiliation from the marriage certificates of the children. I had not paid much attention to that before, so I went back today and had a look. For those whose marriages that I know about this is what I found:

1. Mary Jane 1881 Free Church of Scotland

3. James 1884 Roman Catholic

4. Hugh 1884 Free Church of Scotland

5. Robert 1899 Evangelical Union Church

6. John 1900 Church of Scotland

Difficult to be too conclusive about the family's denomination!

Of course, I agree with you that anything to do with names (with certain notable exceptions) before about 1400 must be largely speculative for either Ireland or Scotland. Nonetheless, the link between Mac Each Arna and Epidion Akron is frequently cited in specialist literature on the subject, for instance in

William J. Watson, The History of the Celtic Place-names of Scotland (1926)

Domhnall MacEacharna, Lands of the Lordship (1976)

W.F.H. Nicolaisen, Arran Place Names: A Fresh Look (1991)

Donald McKenzie, Scottish Folk-Lore and Folk Life: Studies in Race, Culture and Tradition (2013)

Others suggest that the name Mac Each Arna may be derived from those who looked after the stables of the Lords of the Isles.

In my own family tree we have quite a bit of evidence of the frequent movement in both directions between Ireland and Scotland. In addition to those Irish-born ancestors and relatives who moved to Scotland in the 19th century, set out in my posts of a few days ago, an uncle of my father's moved from Scotland to Ulster in the early 20th century - from the shipyards of the Clyde to those of Belfast, where he had the distinction of working on the Titanic. Most of those of the McKechnie name in Ireland today, mostly in Cork and Belfast, can trace their ancestors to Scotland in the late 19th or early 20th centuries.

My wife's family originates in part in Kintyre and, in keeping with the information in your most recent post above, has ancestors with names that are native Kintyre, Lowland Scots and Irish. Indeed, the oldest record we have of an ancestor there is from the late 17th century and relates to one Patrick O Kellie, described, incidentally, as a "Highlander", to distinguish him from others in the list who were incoming Lowlanders. The name O Kellie can be found in Kintyre as early as the early 17th century. The "O" was dropped in the 18th century and is now just Kelly in Kintyre.  Angus Martin, Kintyre: The Hidden Past (1984) is good on the ongoing movements back and forth between Kintyre and the Glens of Antrim and the effect on the surnames of Kintyre.

I am in general aware of the movement of the McDonalds/McDonnells from Argyll to Ulster under pressure from the Campbells and have also read (some long time ago) Philip Robinson, The Plantation of Ulster (1984); but would be interested if you could kindly direct me to sources specifically documenting the movement from Jura, Islay and Kintyre. Is David Hume's Eagle Wings that you mention the best source?

Kind regards,

Gordon

GordonMcKechnie

Gordon,

My own experience of Scottish Registrars is that they were generally fairly good at recording the date and place of parent’s marriage, and that included where the marriage was outside Scotland. Sometimes you got the parish rather than the exact location but they did record it. The information was recorded in 1855 and then from 1861 onwards (so none for 1856 to 1860 inclusive). So that would account for there being no information on the 1859 birth certificate you have.

People often try to find where their Irish ancestors originated and where relevant I refer them to Scottish birth certificates, and it normally does record that marriage information. 1855 is the best year because birth certs from that year only, also record the parents’ places of birth. (Scottish Registrars protested in 1855 about the amount of information they were expected to record, which is why the date and place of parents marriage requirement was dropped for a few years before being reintroduced in 1861).

I have played about with the GRONI civil indexes. There’s no shortage of Agnes McMullan (and variant) marriages. Just no McKechnies. Nearest I could find was Agnes McMillan who married Robert Brown in Newtownards 19.11.1859.  Can’t see how you might get from Brown to McKechnie though.

Regarding the denomination of the marriages, tradition was to marry in the bride’s church. So that tells you about her beliefs but not necessarily about the groom’s. So Mary Jane was Free Church. For her brothers it’s not really possible to say. There were “Wee Free” churches in Ireland (known here mostly as secession kirks) but by the early 20th century most had amalgamated back with the mainstream Presbyterian church or, in some cases, had changed lanes to other denominations eg Unitarian, Congregationalist or, in one case that I know of, even Methodist. However a Free Church marriage in Ireland in 1858 or 1859 would be in the civil indexes. So being Wee Free won’t explain why we can’t find Agnes & Robert’s marriage in Ireland.

I agree with you about the 20th century movement of shipyard workers. Harland & Wolff had yards in Belfast, Clydeside and Liverpool and routinely moved staff between the 3 as business required.  You see evidence of that in the 1911 Irish census. Lots of shipyard workers in Belfast from England & Scotland. I have no doubt your ancestor did work on the Titanic, and clearly thousands of workers also did. However every family tradition says that their ancestor worked on the Titanic and so if always true, that ship must have been a real hive of activity.  My own great uncle claimed to have bought a ticket on the Titanic but to have changed it to a later sailing. I suspect there must be a lot of those cancelled tickets about too.

Regarding the O' prefix as in O’Kelly, in Ireland O' & Mc prefixes have always been very detachable and are used and dropped at a whim. So if searching for McMullan, you routinely search under Mullen as well. Likewise for Kelly and O’Kelly. Indeed if you search on Ancestry you’ll find that it is programmed to offer the name without the prefixes. It was down to the whim of the person recording the information or to the family themselves. It was never seen as an integral part of the surname.

I had a look in the 1630 Muster Rolls for Co Antrim. They list all adult settlers capable of resisting an attack by the native Irish, so form a useful guide to incomer families resident here then. I don’t see any McKechnie or Kechnie names listed anywhere in Ulster, so the mystery continues.

For detailed background on the migration patterns, I recommend: The Plantation of Ulster by Philip Robinson, plus also Eagles Wings. You could also read “Stewarts of Ballintoy with notices of other families in the district in the seventeenth century” by Rev George Hill (Feb 1976). The Stewarts of Ballintoy came from Bute. They were the Earl of Antrim factors in north east Antrim, and settled in Ballintoy.  

If you are really interested in researching further, someone you might want to approach is Dr William Roulston in Belfast. He’s the author of “Researching Scots-Irish Ancestors – The essential genealogical guide to Early Modern Ulster 1600 – 1800”. In my opinion he’s one of the top genealogists in Ulster and he is exceptionally knowledgeable about Scots migration. He’s a key figure in the Ulster Historical Foundation. He’s very approachable and if he has the time, I am sure you may find him very helpful. I can’t recommend him highly enough. There might be a fee for his advice or as he works for a charitable foundation a donation might be appropriate but he is certainly one of the most knowledgeable people I know on your area of interest. You can contact him via: https://www.ancestryireland.com

Your family background in Jura and the surrounding area strikes a chord with me because I know the whole area very well. I must have been to Islay 30 or more times and to Jura at least 10 times. I sailed through the Corryvreckan whirlpool just 2 weeks ago. There are regular distillery and wildlife day trips from Ballycastle to Islay and Jura all the time and these remind you of how, in earlier centuries, the people went back and forth on a daily basis. So migration from Jura to Antrim was never a big deal. It’s well recorded that, in the days of sail, the fishermen in Portnahaven often landed their fish in Ballycastle as opposed to Oban because it was simply easier to get there. If you wander around graveyards on Islay you see the same names as you find on the north Antrim coast. These were obviously the same people and they went back and forth for centuries.  There are some minor spelling differences. McPhail in the Hebrides is McFaul on Rathlin but we know these are just how the names were Anglicized. They are the same names. My wife and I went to Islay in April and we hired someone to take us from Ballycastle to Port Ellen. (An hour and a half). Our boatman (normally the skipper of the Rathlin ferry) told us he had rowed from Ballycastle to Port Ellen a few years previously, as a part of a re-enactment of St Columba’s voyage from Ireland to Iona. It took 11 hours to row across the 30 odd miles. Tiring but hardly a massive journey even then. And they probably used sail in Columba’s day anyway. Or Calmac.

I regularly get asked about whether Scots settlers in Ireland in the 1600s would have spoken English or Gaelic or both.  I attach this article which contains information on migration from Argyllshire:

“Native Gaelic-Speaking Protestants

There is much circumstantial evidence of Protestants who were native speakers of Gaelic, and other Protestants who became very fluent through everyday interaction with other native speakers. Many of these Protestant Gaelic speakers came from Scotland. During the plantations of Ulster in the early 1600s only ‘inland Scots’ were supposed to be settlers; this policy was intended to exclude Gaelic-speaking Highlanders, but failed to do so. When the Marquis of Argyll brought his troops to Antrim during the 1640s uprisings, most of them would have been Gaelic speakers, and many settled in Ireland when they had finished their military service. Overpopulation and the commercialisation of estates in Scotland also pushed people from Argyll to Antrim in the 1690s; sometimes the dispossessed were recruited for military campaigns in Ireland.

During the time of the Plantations of Ulster there was little difference between the Gaelic of many Scottish settlers and the Irish of the natives. The Irish of Antrim shared many features with Scottish Gaelic, and the Gaelic of Kintyre and Argyll was very similar to Antrim Irish. Robert MacAdam wrote in 1873:

Even yet the Glensmen of Antrim go regularly to Highland fairs, and communicate without the slightest difficulty with the Highlanders. Having myself conversed with both Glensmen and Arranmen, I can testify to the absolute identity of their speech (Ó Baoill 2000: 122).

There are some fascinating accounts which prove that some of the Protestant settlers in Ulster spoke Scottish Gaelic. John Richardson (1664-1747), rector of Belturbet in County Cavan since 1693, wrote some interesting letters on the subject. In 1711 a correspondent of Richardson, J. Maguire, noted the following:

I met many of the inhabitants, especially of the baronies of Glenarm, Dunluce and Kilconaway, who could not speak the English tongue, and asking them in Irish what religion they professed they answered they were Presbyterians ... I had the curiosity to go to their meeting on the Sunday following, where I heard their minister preach to them in Irish at which (though I think he did not do it well,) they expressed great devotion ... His audience, (as I understand) was composed of native Irish and Highlanders (Richardson 1711: 16).

Richardson noted that many Highlanders had settled in deserted lands in Inishowen and Antrim after the Williamite conquest, and as they spoke no English, were supplied with Gaelic-speaking ministers from Scotland:

In the Northern Parts of the County of Antrim, which being also deserted by the Irish, upon the landing of the English army near Carrickfergus in 1689, many families from the Western Isles of Scotland, who understood no other language but Irish, settled there. At their first going over, they went to church; but not understanding the divine service celebrated there, they soon went over to the communion of the Church of Rome, only for the benefit of such exhortations, as the Popish priests usually give their congregations in Irish. And when they were asked the reason, why they did so? They said, ‘It was better to be of their religion, than none at all’ (Richardson 1711: 28-9).

Some of these Scottish settlers were Anglican. When Presbyterian government was established in Scotland in 1689, disaffected Scottish Episcopalians came to live in North Antrim (Ó Snodaigh 1995: 33). Cathal Dallat notes that Rasharkin was settled by Anglican Highlanders who petitioned the Bishop of Connor to provide them with a Gaelic-speaking minister (1994: 38-9).

Richardson noted that the Bishop of Down provided North Antrim Presbyterians with the Gaelic-speaking Reverend Archibald Mac Collum, who... has taken such effectual pains with the Irish and Highlanders of them, that by the blessing of God he has not only brought back numbers who had fallen off from our Church to that of Rome, but brought over several who were originally Irish Papists, and is every day gaining upon them (Richardson 1711: 14).

Scottish Gaelic speakers settled in many areas of the North. A souvenir booklet of Loughgall Presbyterian Church in Armagh notes the Scottish origin of the congregation, and continues, ‘ We glean that the Scotch settlers here still used the Gaelic of their native Scotland, a language spoken also by the Irish in the district. The Rev Archibald Macclane, who hailed from Argyle, and was a fluent speaker in the native tongue, preached in Loughgall meeting house in Gaelic in 1717’ (1954: 3-4).”

Source: www.ultach.dsl.pipex.com/ForLearners/Prodhistory.pdf

I hope that some of the above may be interesting to you. Even if it doesn’t directly tell you where your ancestors originated.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Elwyn,

Thank you very much indeed for all the time you have kindly taken with this. It is fascinating - even if it does not take me too many steps closer to discovering where in Ireland my ancestors and relatives came from. I enjoy the general history of the area as well.

You clearly have had more luck than I have had with Scottish records giving precise locations of births or marriages in Ireland. I have only ever in my own family tree research found one instance or more that "Ireland" being given - and that was on an 1855 marriage certificate unrelated to the McKechnie side of my family. Still, it was something. It remains the only place in Ireland that I have a definitive link to.

I was suffiently intrigued by the number of different religious affiliations for the marriages of the children of our 1859 couple, Robert McKechnie and Agnes McMullan, that I went back over the marriage records for some of their realtives. Robert had a brother James and a sister Martha. Here are the details of their marriages and those for their children where I am aware of them

1. James m. Elizabeth Rankin+ 1868 Church of Scotland

1.1 John 1899 English Episcopal Church

1.2 Mary 1900 Plymouth Brethren

1.3 James 1898 Church of Scotland

1. James m2. Annie Anderson* 1876 Free Church

1.4 Richard Boyle McK 1909 Congregational Church

1.5 William McK 1914 Plymouth Brethren

1.6 Anderson McK** 1918 United Free Church

2. Martha McK m. Richard Boyle*** Church of Scotland

2.1 Ann Cunningham Boyle 1905 United Free Church

Notes:

+ Elizabeth Rankin was born in Ireland in about 1844

*Annie Anderson had a brother, Robert Anderson. In 1866, he married (Church of Scotland) Fanny McKechnie who was a cousin of Robert, James and Martha. Annie and Robert Anderson were born about 1852 and 1843, respectively, both in Ireland. Their parents were Robert Anderson and Nancy (Ann) (Agnes) Hanson.

**Anderson McKechnie m. Elizabeth Anderson (d. of James Anderson and Margaret McIntyre) in 1918. I have not found a link yet between this Anderson family and the one that married twice with the McKechnies in the previous generation.

*** Robert Boyle was also born in Ireland, about 1840. His parents were John Boyle and Sarah Cunningham.

It is interesting to me how many of the people here who emigrated from Ireland to Scotland married others who had made the same journey. Perhaps they all came from the same place in Ireland. Elizabeth Rankin was taken by her parents (Daniel Rankin and Mary Church) in 1846 to the United States. Intriguingly, in the 1850 census there, the Rankins are found living in the house of a William and Sarah McKinney and their neighbours are called Anderson - all Irish born. By the time of the 1861 Scottish Census, Elizabeth Rankin is in Scotland, a boarder in a McKechnie household.

GordonMcKechnie

Regarding the different denominations, in Ireland there was a big religious revival in 1858 and 1859 which affected mainly Presbyterians. They were encouraged to give up drink, attend church more and pay stricter attention to the bible. There was a huge upsurge in church attendance and many new churches were built. Quite a lot of Presbyterians changed to Plymouth Brethren (or just Brethren as they prefer to describe themselves here) which many felt fulfilled their needs more. So you would see a lot of Brethren in Co. Antrim records all through the 1800s and they are still active in this area today.

The Congregational churches are sort of stand alone Presbyterian churches. They aren’t in the presbytery system but generally follow Presbyterian principles.  The United Free tend to be the descendants of the 2 big secessions in the 1700s. In Ireland they were really the equivalent of the Free Church. Presbyterianism in Ireland pretty well mirrored Scotland.  Nearly all Presbyterian Ministers in Ireland had trained in Scotland (no Irish university would give them a degree till about 1850) and many were actually Scottish. So the various splits and remarriages in Scottish Presbyterianism were largely replicated in Ireland.

With the exception of the 1 Episcopalian marriage, the remainder of your list seem to have had a Presbyterian upbringing and background in one way or another.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

 

Hi Gordon,

I know this has been a few years since you posted this.  I have dna matches to this McMullan family.  I have found Agnes McMullan and her sister Susan McMullan.  They were both born in Ireland.  My great great grandfather was Hugh McMullan born around 1845 in Aghadowey, Derry Co. Ireland.  His father was Hugh McMullan born around 1820.  Agnes and Susan also there are records saying their father was Hugh.  I am wondering if my Hugh is a sibling of Agnes and Susan as I have dna matches to both Agnes and Susan's descendants.  I have been looking for marriage record for Agnes and Robert McKechnie as well and haven't been able to find one either.  I have heard from my family members that this McMullan family was Catholic if that helps any.  I am still trying to find more info on my great great grandfather Hugh, but not having much luck yet.  He was married to Martha McGrath/McGraw in 1870 in Portstewart, Derry Co.  The family stayed in Aghadowey many years after.  It looks like Agnes married Robert in Ireland and then they went to Scotland.  Susan must have went with them as it shows her living with Agnes and Robert in Port Glasgow when she was 16 years old.  I am wondering if the parents had passed away already?  

Anyways hoping to find more info out here.  This probably isn't all that helpful, but thought I would message here anyways.  

Kathy 

Kathy

Kathy,

I note you say the McMullen family were Roman Catholic. How sure are you about that? I note that Hugh married in the Church of Ireland in 1870 (though tradition was to marry in the bride’s church so that’s not always conclusive). However this looks to be him in 1901 and the family were again all Church of Ireland.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Ballymena_and_Town_and_Urban_District_of_Ballymena/Castle_Street/925776/

You say you don’t know much about the family. I can see 7 children to the marriage in the GRONI indexes:

Hugh 16.5.1871

Ann 22.4.1873

Mary 6.2.1875 Mullamore

William 10.7.1877

Robert James 5.1.1882 Galgorm St, Ballymena

Hester 8.1.1884

James 24.4.1886

Hugh born c 1845’s place of birth is Co. Londonderry. If he came from Aghadowey and was born c 1845, then the Churhc of Ireland records for that period were destroyed in the 1922 fire. The only Presbyterian church with baptism records is KIllaig whose records start in 1805. They are not on-line. You need to go to PRONI to see them. The RC records (parish of Killowen) start in 1843. They are on-line: http://www.nli.ie

Death registration only started in Ireland in 1864. If Hugh b 1820 died before 1864 there is unlikely to be any record. If he died after 1864 then the records for 1864 – 1977  are still pay to view. I see 3 possibles (of men born around 1805 -1825) in the Coleraine registration area. You can view the original certificates on-line on the GRONI website, using the “search registrations” option: 

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs £2.50 (sterling) to a view a certificate.  Hugh b c 1820 was a land steward, according to his son’s marriage in 1870.

Deaths 1878 onward are viewable free on the irishgenealogy site.

https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/

 

 

 

 

 

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Hi Kathy and Elwyn,

You are indeed correct, Kathy, that it has been several years since I last posted to this site and had the very interesting conversation there with Elwyn. Indeed, it has been almost equally long since I did anything much with my family tree.

As it happens, the record that started off my interest over 30 years ago was the 1861 census for Marsh Lane, Port Glasgow. Until then I had no idea that my ancestors had come to Scotland from Ireland as recently as (probably) the late 1850s. The household you are interested in (Robert McKechnie, Ann (or Agnes) née McMullen, two infant daughters and Susan McMullen, “sister in law”) is the entry immediately following that for the household of John Moore who was stepfather to James McKechnie and Mary A McKechnie (as well as to Robert) and his wife Mary Logan who was their mother. There were also three boarders in that household – Fanny McKechnie, Elizabeth Rankin and William McLean. Fanny was in fact a cousin to James, Mary A, Robert and to another sister named Martha who was by then living elsewhere in Port Glasgow. That two households are listed probably conceals the fact that they were all living in the same space.

James McKechnie and Elizabeth Rankin married and are my great grandparents.

All these people (except the two infants) were recorded as born in Ireland (but Elizabeth Rankin lived in the United States from early childhood until 1860). But where in Ireland?

When Elizabeth Rankin died at the age of 30 my great grandfather married Annie Anderson. She was also Irish-born and the sister of Robert Anderson who married my great grandfather’s cousin Fanny. Their parents were Robert Anderson and Annie Hanson. When one of my great grandfather’s sons moved (back) to Ireland in the early 1900s, he named his son Richard Hanson McKechnie.

Hanson is not a common surname in Ireland. So I looked for a Richard Hanson in Ireland in the early 20th century and found him in Coleraine.

Working on an assumption that all these Irish-born people had come from the same place in Ireland and with the help of the North of Ireland Family History Society (Causeway and Glens branch), I found that Elizabeth Rankin’s parents (Daniel Rankin and Mary Church, both of whom died in the United States) had been married in St Patrick’s CofI in Coleraine before emigrating to the United States (only Elizabeth returned to the east side of the Atlantic) and from that various other related pieces of information. I have since found most of the relevant surnames in this branch of my family tree (except frustratingly McKechnie) in the vicinity of Coleraine in the mid-19th century – even if I’ve not been able to establish the precise links to my family tree.

As noted in one of my earlier posts in the above chain, the parents of Ann (or Agnes) McMullen in the 1861 Port Glasgow census were Hugh McMullan and Ann Orr. I have not pursued this line. I did look in a rather cursory way for a marriage for Susan McMullan (to see if she had married into one of the same families), but not finding anything easily did not pursue it as it was too far away from my main family tree. But it has always intrigued me that my parents had pieces of china with the name “Mrs J. Orr” on them and a date which I think was 1880. Maybe that was the connection.

It seems likely to me that if you have a DNA connection to the children of Susan and Ann (Agnes) McMullan, then the links you mention are probably good ones.

If you have nay more information that relates to all this, I would be delighted to hear from you. If you'd prefer not to post to this forum, please feel free to use my email address: mckechnie@elmbank.plus.com

Best wishes,

Gordon

GordonMcKechnie

 

 

 

Hi Elwyn and Gordon,

Thank you both so much for answering so fast!  I have found Hugh and Martha's children and below.  Sorry, I should have clarified that.  It is Hugh's siblings and his parents I am not too sure about yet.  I have found that the McMullan's came from Coleraine.  Most of my ancestors were born in Aughodowey and Mullamore and Droghead.  I have found their birth records.  These are Hugh and Martha's children.  So I am thinking that Agnes (Ann) McMullan came from that area as well as you said Hanson family came from Coleraine also.  Gordon, I will email you as I have some more info for you.  Susan McMullan, she married a Creighton.  I have that info and will look for it and send to you.  I have been in contact with a dna match who is descended from Susan.  

Thanks again Elwyn and Gordon.  Elwyn, thank you for the info and I will try those record sites and maybe I can find Hugh's death records in there.  

Kathy

Kathy

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