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McDonagh/Towey of Hawksford

I'm looking to trace my family from Hawksford, Ballaghadereen, Co. Roscommon.

My great grandfather was John/Joseph McDonagh (apparently he was known by both names??!!) and he married Bridget Towey. I believe that there is a link to Castlerea parish too.

They lived as farmers in Hawksford and had (I believe 6 children)

Thomas McDonagh - the eldest who inherited the farm

Jay McDonagh - I was always told his name was 'Jay', though I suspect that it may have been James, he married 'Nelly' from Tipperary and they moved to Coventry after the farm was inherited by Thomas

Michael McDonagh - Who should have entered the seminary (so I presume he was the second born son?) and instead he married and had 19 children! Not sure where he went, or if he stayed in the area.

John McDonagh - Who moved to Cheadle Hulme near Manchester UK and became an accountant upon the farm being inherited by Thomas

Patrick Joseph - my grandfather, a coal heaver, who moved to Stoke on Trent UK and married Nora Burke in 1940 aged 28.

Mary McDonagh - who went to America, when the farm was inherited by Thomas. She was known amongst the family as 'Babe'.. seeing as she was the youngest.

I would appreciate it if anyone has any information on this side of my family as every bit of research I have done so far has amounted to naught. I realise that the names are fairly common, But I'm unsure about how many farms are in Hawksford.

Thank you in advance.

IrelandXO member

16 replies

SMcDonagh:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

Here is the 1911 census record for your family  http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003185865/   Looks like Patrick was born in February 1911 and I located his civil birth record and his birth date was February 28th  https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

The parents married in April 1903 https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_re…  Names of the fathers of the bride and groom are shown on the record. Bridget was shown as being from Redridge which is not an official townland. The marriage was in Ballaghaderreen so likely that was Bridget's home parish.

Hawksford had about thirty families in the 1901 and 1911 censuses. Hawksford is located about seven kilometers northwest of Ballaghaderreen out the old N5 road towards the village of Carracastle in Mayo. On Google Maps, I can see Red Ridge is just north of Hawksford.

The 1903 marriage record indicates that Michael McDonagh was living but I don't see him in Hawksford in the 1901 census. I will look further.

Let me know if you have questions.

Roger McDonnell

 

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

SMcDonagh:

You mentioned a Castlerea connection. There was no John McDonagh baptismal record on Roots Ireland with a father Michael but there was an 1857 baptismal record in Castlerea for a John with father Michael.

Roger

Name:John McDonoDate of Birth:
Date of Baptism:06-Aug-1857Address:Not RecordedParish/District:CASTLEREAGender:MaleCountyCo. Roscommon
Denomination:Roman Catholic
Father:Michael McDonoMother:Mary EganOccupation:
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:Michael Blighe Sponsor 2 /
Informant 2:Sarah McDonagh 

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

 

Wow! Thank you so much. This really has clairified things for me and I can't wait to tell my dad. 

 

 

IrelandXO member

Roger McDonnell

I am the son of John McDonagh, one of the six children mentioned above (actually the youngest) and I'm also known as John McDonagh.

I wonder if you might be able to cast any light on my Uncle Thomas (the eldest) who was not on the 1911 census, please? I would like to know when he inherited the farm from my Grandfather before adding what little I know about the family to this discussion? I have assumed it would have been circa 1948, but perhaps it was earlier?

John McDonagh

IrelandXO member

Hi John!

I don't have any access to data on land transfers in the 20th century so I can't help with the date when Thomas took over the property. I do want to point out that the 1911 census shows that Bridget had four children by 1911 and since Thomas was not listed, he would not have been the oldest child of John and Bridget. I also checked the 1903 marriage record and John was shown as a bachelor so not married before.

I did some further checking and Thomas was actually born on Christmas Eve 1912.  https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

Roger

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Hi Roger,

Thankyou so much for your imput, it is much appreciated. I have quite a bit more research to do before getting complete picture, but I will elaborate on what I do know about the tragic McDonagh family from Hawksford.

I'm not sure how things work here, but I feel I need to address my comments now to my relative from Stoke, my cousin's child. Please involve yourself and any and all help will be gratefully received.

I will need to research shipping records for John Joseph, my Dad to England; Maria to the USA, and Jay (James) to Canada. Jay came back to Europe before WWII and settled in Coventry, btw. A great help in finding some dates for these movements would be finding out when Grandma Bridget died. (I believe 1924/25)

If you can point me in the right direction, Roger, or if you have access to that kind of data I would be much obliged.

Kind regards,
John

IrelandXO member

Smcdonagh

Hello, I'm sorry but my reply to you has been accidentally deleted. I will have to repost later - and I didn't make a copy! Be patient and I'll get back to you.

Kind regards from your father's cousin in Cheadle, Cheshire

John Anthony McDonagh

IrelandXO member

Smcdonagh

 

Hello again! I'm sorry but I'm not sure how to address you, but I'm your father's cousin the son of John Joseph McDonagh, your grandfather Patrick's brother.

With grateful acknowledgement to Roger McDonnell for filling in several gaps in my/our knowledge of the family , I can now share some of my father's story and hopefully present a clearer picture of events, which is not to say I have all the answers. Some mysteries still remain.

To say this is a very tragic story would be a gross understatement. Essentially, your Great Grandma Bridget (although I was informed by others she was known as Mary) died in around 1924/1925. By then there were six children: Michael about 20; Jay about 18; Maria about 17; Patrick about 14; Thomas about 13, and John Joseph aged just 7.

Soon after her mother's passing, Maria set sail for America where she married and later gave birth to my cousin Eddie Gallagher in 1930.

At some point soon after Bridget's death, Jay emigrated to Canada but, he returned to Europe and settled in Coventry in the mid to late 1930's.

My father, John Joseph aged 7 was sent away to England soon after his mother's death where, in his own words, he was "passed around like a parcel from one (unknown) distant relative to strangers with my arse hanging out of my pants."

To suggest he was an orphan would be a gross distortion of the truth for, according to him he was physically abused and kicked around in various locations in Coventry by numerous supposed "Carers" in Coventry. My Dad likened his situation to being "in digs" and said he was lucky if he had a roof over his head and a bed to sleep in, and something to eat most days.

In about 1933 Tom and John Joseph met in Coventry. Dad begged his brother to allow him to return home as he was unhappy in England and he was worried because he was losing his Irish accent or brogue. I can quote Tom's reply verbatim because my father only rarely opened up and the few times he did are etched in my memory:

"Don't be so ******* stupid, John! You've been gone too long! The Irish don't want you and the English won't want you if they find out you're Irish."

Fortunately for my father, sometime later, Jay went to live in Coventry and Dad lived with the childless Nellie and Jay until he married my mother, Gladys Elizabeth Powell from nearby Kenilworth in 1939. Those brief two or so years were the only family life my then young father experienced in over 14 years of enforced banishment and disenfranchised exile from his roots, his home, his country and his family.

My father was posted to Manchester during the day the Coventry Blitz took place. As a kid, my favourite story was the retelling of their train journey in which, under wartime blackout, the train stopped just outside of Stoke-on-Trent and everyone disembarked and gazed at the nightime sky above Coventry some twenty miles away lit up like an inferno from hell.

I remember Jay and Nellie with great affection because from a very young age right into my teenage years Mum and Dad and Bernard and myself visited them at least once a year, every year. Jay and John Joseph were very close, as was Nellie.

I can tell you that your Great Granddad Jack (John) McDonagh died in Hawksford on 25th May 1953, but I'm at a loss to explain how the second youngest son, Thomas came to inherit the farm. But, at least the myth of the "eldest son" having inherited the farm has now been exposed as false.

I can also tell you with certainty that my father was never told of his father's passing by Tom, and I will leave it to your imagination as to how that made John Joseph the youngest son of Jack McDonagh feel.

Do you know if your grandfather, Patrick was informed of his father's death at the time by any chance?

I never met your father, my cousin, but I remember my Dad got to know him late on in his life and he always spoke highly of him until his death on 4th March 1987.

I'm happy to tell you that John Joseph went to America for three months back in the 80's during which time he stayed with Maria and the Gallagher family in Little Plains, New York. Cousin Eddie had 3 daughters, Coleen, Eileen and the youngest, Kathleen. Last I heard, Eddie had 4 grandchildren too.

I will close for now but I feel the need to add something here, not so much for your benefit but more for others who may be reading this: Please do not think - or dare to try and tell me - that these cruel events (of c1925, c1933 and 1953 especially) made my father stronger and made him a better person because they did no such thing. Instead, they near destroyed him and they weighed heavily upon him all of his days on earth like a curse that left him a broken, troubled and often lonely man.

It is common for such trauma to pass down the generations and this all rubbed off on my late brother Bernard and myself as children and as adults, and on our late mother Gladys too. Sadly, it has even left its mark on both Bernard's family and on my own family too.

I loved my father dearly, but anyone with any insight into attachment theory and other psychological research and practice will know exactly what I'm attempting to convey in as respectful a way as I know how. I do not say them easily but feel my father's voice should be heard and his story told despite the feathers that might be ruffled by its telling, including John Joseph's himself who would have been far too proud to reveal his lifelong hurt.

I trust you understand my words are written out of love for my father and not out of disrespect.

So, goodbye for now! I would love to hear back from you and please say hello to your father for me.

Kind regards,

John Anthony McDonagh

IrelandXO member

Roger McDonnell

Hi Roger,

Just a quick update to say I've confirmed that Maria McDonagh disembarked from the Cedric out of Cobh in New York on 1st January 1926. I therefore think it safe to assume that Bridget died in 1925, although I've not been able to obtain her record of death as yet.

Regards,

John A McDonagh

IrelandXO member

 

Hello John,

Thank you so much, and to Roger for all the research.

John, please call me Sheena.

I do remember your dad, John Joseph, coming to see us at least a couple of times, once when I was about 10/11 (It may have been later, we left that first house in 1982, just before my 12th birthday). On that first visit he showed us photos from his visit to the USA and I talked with him in depth about it, as it was somewhere I always wanted to visit. I remember photos of the Stars in the pavement in Hollywood, plus photos of Disneyland and many others. 
I also remember that he had a folding bicycle, which he gave a name to (though the name escapes me now), and he used to travel by train a lot and put her in the porters carriage. 
He also visited us after we moved, which may well have been around 84/5... but don't recall that one as closely. 
I do remember that he spoke very well, was obviously a self made man and didn't have an Irish accent. 

Anyway, back to the rest of the family story... 

I believe Michael was supposed to join the seminary, however, he got married and had about 19 children!.. I wonder if it was because Your grandmother, Bridget had died, which no doubt would have precluded him joining, however, surely he would have inherited the farm?! 
I'm so sorry that I don't have a lot more information. I also had no idea that my Great Uncle John had suffered so much. How horrible. I do remember visiting Auntie Nellie when I was very young, and she was absolutely lovely, however Uncle Jay wasn't alive by then, so suspect, much like my grandfather Patrick, had died relatively young. I know my grandfather died before my parents got married, he suffered terribly from pneumoconiosis as a result of working in the mines and he spoke very quickly (my mum recalls meeting him and saying that although he spoke English, it was very fast and she struggled to understand him). My mum and dad have my grandparents death certificates, and think they may have marriage certificate too. 

I didn't know that Jay was the one that went to Canada, I only knew that one of them had. 
Its also good to know about Maria and that she had, seemingly a happy life in the USA. Incidently, are you in contact with Eddie Gallagher, or any of his children?

It would be interesting to know if there is more information on what actually happened and how they were so dispersed, and why the decision was made to send my Great Uncle John to so many different people. 

Oh, I do understand about the psychological impact of family histories. My father, Paul Patrick is an only child, as I am myself. I knew there was something kind of hidden in our family, but had no idea that it was so tragic. Mainly due to my 'being seen and not heard', but also, because I guess that these matters were swept under the proverbial carpet. Thank you so much for responding to my post John, I really do appreciate it. I agree that Great Uncle John's story does need to be heard, I for one have no issue with it and will help in whatever way I can. 

Kind regards

Sheena Anne McDonagh

 

 

 

 

 

IrelandXO member

John and Sheena:

I was glad to assist with some of the research on the McDonagh family of Hawksford. I appreciate the stories about the family and in particularly the difficulties that John Joseph experienced on his life.

I did not mention this before but my McDonnell family came from Derrynanaff (also known as Bullockfield) townland just to the west of Hawksford. There were seven children in the family and the oldest six including my grandfather, Patrick, emigrated to Philadelphia. The youngest daughter, Anne, stayed and married a local man, Michael Towey, who took over the farm when my great-grandfather passed in 1937. 

All the best!

Roger

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Hi Sheen and Roger,

Thankyou both for your replies which I will respond to soon. 

First off, I just wanted to give you a quick progress report on what I've been able to discover so far which collaborates what my father had told me and, which I have already shared here:

1) Maria arrived in NYC on 1st January 1926 (my father's ninth birthday!) The ship's manifest, line 00664 clearly shows her father as "John McDonagh of Hawksford"  and her passenger ID was 901731202234 on the Cedric which had sailed from Cobh during 1925. This can be found on the Ellis Island website, no doubt amongst others.

2) Jay and Nellie arrived in Quebec in CANADA on the 23rd May 1930. They had sailed on the Antonia from Liverpool. I have this information on a picture file only (TNA_BT27_1274_00_0055_P_0003F(2).jpg)

3) The 1939 Census of England and Wales shows the following on Entry 259 for No 4, Hampton Close, Coventry, Warwickshire on September 29th 1939 (on picture file TNA_R39_5646_56.jpg)

   a) John Joseph McDonagh, single, dob 1/1/1918... a Senior Progress Clerk, Engineering Aircraft.

   b) James McDonagh, married, dob 4/6/1905.... a Builders Plasterer.

   c) Ellen (Nellie) McDonagh, married, dob 5/10/1903.... a Housewife.

4) My parents, John Joseph McDonagh and Gladys Elizabeth Powell were, of course, married on 24th December 1939 in Coventry. The marriage can be found under Gladys McDonagh Coventry on page 6d 3136 of BMD. Again, I have a picture file (BMD_M_1939_4_P.jpg) for this.

King regards,

John

 

IrelandXO member

Hi Sheena,

Sorry for the typo which addressed you as Sheen on my last post!

I'd like to ask you if I'm correct in assuming what you wrote about Michael came via your dad, Paul and grandfather, Patrick? I remember my dad mentioning Michael but can't recall what else, if anything he said about him. The same with Patrick really when I think about it, no details, just his name. But, Michael along with Thomas are both proving very elusive in terms of finding records of them other than the 1911 Census and Thomas's birth details which Roger shared with us. On the other hand, Jay, Maria, Patrick and John Joseph have proved relatively easy to discover various records about. I'll keep plodding on though.

Yes indeed, I like your description of my dad: well spoken, self-made, with no (obvious) accent. He did do remarkably well, especially considering his difficult childhood. He struggled all his life to better himself and sadly he struggled too much at times and, even sadder still, he sometimes struggled against both his ownself and his nearest and dearest too.

Following WWII, newly settled in Manchester, he transitioned from Army Pay Corps to the Civil Service. My first recollections were of him working at the Food Office where he seemed always intent on getting a transfer and/or promotion within the civil service structure. I recall one weekend in the early to mid 50's when we all went to view Aldermaston as a potential transfer location. Aldermaston was then an obscure, uncontroversial nowhere kind of place, the home of some government research establishment or other. I'm not sure what transpired, but we all remained in rainy old Manchester where at least there was a football team or two to cheer on.

Dad worked as a GPO telephone operator four or five evenings a week in addition to his day job. Once I started school, my Mum got a part-time job in a local rubber factory and a few years later she became a full-time GPO trained Telephonist attaining the position of Supervisor before her early retirement in about 1972. (I'd need to dig out old letters to be sure of the dates, tbh.)

Anyhow, back in 1957 they had both saved between them what was then a Prince's Ransom of £500 for the deposit on the house of their dreams. The family moved to Heald Green in 1958 and by then, John Joseph was working for The Lord Chancellor's Office as a Clerk of Court, but still looking out for that elusive promotion or internal transfer which never came. They were both in their element having a place of their own and Mum was beside herself at having a garden front and back.

Sadly, their shared dream didn't even last twenty years, and Mum died suddenly and unexpectedly in 1975 a couple of years after separating from Dad. She came to live around the corner from us in Cheadle Hulme. A few years later, John Joseph sold the family property and went to live in a retirement flat in Heald Green which was huge in relation to what passes for a retirement flat now, I can tell you. He took an early-ish retirement on full Civil Service Pension, supplemented by State Pension later on, so he was comfortable enough in his old age.

And, he did a fair bit of travelling as we all know and, why not? As far as I'm aware he was mostly in fairly good fettle although he did need to see a doctor when he was in the States. He was lucky he did because the medical profession over there was years ahead of here and after tests they diagnosed Haemachromotosis, now popularly known as the Irish Disease.

His GP back in Heald Green had never even heard of it and it is a pretty serious genetically transmitted disease, fatal if not treated. He had to regularly go into hospital for the rest of his life where they would drain his blood in order to thin out the excess iron. It was a factor in his death too, his skin having turned yellow a couple of weeks before he died.

At some point, Thomas and John Joseph made contact with each other and c1962/3 Bernard holidayed at Hawksford prior to going to Uni, then cousin Breege stayed with us for a month or so before heading off to the States never to be heard from again, at least by myself. I met Uncle Tom the once as he waited on my parent's doorstep to pick up Breege, and I never saw or heard from him again either.

My father did have further contact and he visited Ballaghaderreen a few times. I have some photos somewhere.

My youngest son, Liam went travelling about 15 years ago and came across Donagh, Sean and (yes, the very same) Breege - three of Uncle Tom's children living in Perth, Western Australia. In fact, Liam stayed with Donagh for about a month. During their various chats, Donagh said that Tom didn't let John Joseph know his father had died because he didn't know his home address, which I found odd because Uncle Jay and my father never lost contact, so did Uncle Tom not know Uncle Jay and Auntie Nellie's whereabouts either?

(Interestingly, I have come across an Obituary Notice for your Great Granddad online. It's in the Sligo Champion dated 23rd May 1953 and mentions only Thomas out of the six siblings. A Requiem was held at Ballaghaderreen Cathedral and he was buried at St. James's Cemetery, Carracastle.)

I even "chatted" smalltalk with Donagh once or twice on Facebook a few years ago, but the FB malarkey isn't really my cup of tea, I'm afraid. Moreover, my account was hacked so I speedily left FB and deleted all my contacts. I contacted Donagh via Twitter but it didn't seem to suit him.

The last Liam heard from Donagh was the day of his Uncle Bernard's funeral in Brum in December 2013. They had spoken previously about meeting up that month and, as Donagh was passing through London either coming or going from Oz or Ireland he text messaged Liam. Liam sent a text back saying Bernard was being buried that day but never got a reply.

Donagh did leave a voicemail message on my phone when Lily passed away in May 2016. My neice, Lara lives in Perth too and had told him but, unfortunately my service provider was unable to provide me with a number to return the call - for reasons beyond my ken, maybe a Giffgaff issue with Oz perhaps, I don't know.

Anyway, I'll close for now Sheena, give my best wishes to your dad, Paul. I'll keep beavering away and see what else I can find out about my seemingly elusive uncles, Michael and Thomas McDonagh. I like a good mystery and this is proving to be some puzzle to be sure. Michael is a complete enigma, it's as if he vanished off the face of the earth.

Sorry, I lost contact with cousin Eddie around about the time my dad died, so I have no up-to-date information on Maria's family, the Gallaghers in New York City I'm afraid.

Kind regards,

John

 

IrelandXO member

Hi Roger amd John,  I've just been re-reading the first documents that you sent through and its rather interesting.. 

We have 2 Patrick McDonagh's listed in the Castlerea document.. One born to John and Bridget and the other born to Michael and Mary Anne.

There is also a Margaret Mary listed as being born to a Thomas and Katie. 

The Patrick born to John and Bridget on March 4th 1911, is the one who is supposedly my grandfather.

I'm wondering if John and Michael were related and if Thomas was also related to them? Brothers maybe?

I plan to pick through the documents you've provided Roger, as I'm wondering if there's been some confusion down the years.

Thanks

Sheena

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IrelandXO member

Hi John and Sheena,  My name is Dan Callanan from  New York, USA. My wife Helen nee Gallagher (81 years old) is daughter to Maria/Mary McDonagh Gallagher, and sister to Edward Gallagher (who I see is mentioned in conversations). I can provide you with all info of the USA clan as well as interactions with Uncle John, who came to stay with us in America. Would love to speak with you. Best regards from your cousins, Dan & Helen

 

 

Helen Gallaghe…

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