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McCall Eliz./Caroline, married to John Watson b1804 of Tamnaskenny, Cty Tyrone.

Tyrone

I'm looking for helpre:my Gr. Gr.GrandmotherElizabeth(poss.Ellen or Caroline) McCall,

poss.borninCounty Armaghabt. 1812, who marriedJohn Watson b.1804.

J.Watsonlived inTownland Tamnaskeeny(kenny)Cty. Tyrone,a lessor of JohnShaw.

I can findNO info on my McCall line. I would appreciate any help!

This MAY be her Death Record: "21 February 1885Tirnaskea, Cookstown, Desertcreat Parish,Tyrone,died-Tirnaskea, at Son's.TamnaskennyHouse,9:00pm.in her 74th year, Elizabeth, widow of the late John Watson....BelfastNewspr."

Would be age 73 at death, likelyborn 1812.

(Their 1st. son Henry Watson was born1835Tamnaskeeny, Kildress, Tyrone.

MyGr .Grndmthr.Martha AnnWatson 1839-1909, their daughter, married Robert Thomson Knipe 1841-1891, of Unagh near Cookstown in 1866.)

My Grandfather, son of MAW + RTK, came to Canada 1912, a Medical Dr.

Thank you, Peggy, BC., Canada.

salsaqb-mail@yahoo.ca

pbgish@yahoo.ca

8 replies

Peggy,

The Elizabeth Watson who died on 21.2.1885 at Tirnaskea was a farmer’s widow.  The informant was her son William.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1885/06291/4802851.pdf

She died intestate, but helpfully the probate abstract links her to Tamnaskinney:

Letters of Administration of the personal estate of Elizabeth Watson late of Tamnaskinney County Tyrone Widow who died 21 February 1885 at same place were granted at Armagh to George Watson of Tullyreavy in said County Farmer the Son. This is George with his sister Ellen in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Oaklands/Tullyreavy/1729359/

Then there’s this abstract:

Letters of Administration of the personal estate of John Watson late of Tamnaskinney County Tyrone Farmer who died 3 March 1880 at same place were granted at Armagh to George Watson of Tullyreavy in said County Farmer a Son. John was 76 when he died, so born c 1804.

John had 4 pieces of land in Tamnaskeeny (plots 1, 11,12 & 25). According to the Valuation Revision records, after his death they pass first to Eliza and then to George and then to Rev John Watson.  This may be the Rev John in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Charlemont/Keen…

I noted this additional Watson farm in the townland, who could perhaps  be their son Henry:

Probate of the Will of Henry Watson late of Tamnaskinney County Tyrone Farmer who died 10 February 1900 granted at Armagh to The Reverend Thomas S. Watson Clerk

The will itself is on-line on the PRONI site and mentions his son the Rev Thomas Stewart Watson of Clough Glebe, Fermanagh, This looks to be him in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Fermanagh/Rosslea/Cloghmore/1362737/

I looked for Henry’s death to see how old he was but I can’t find a death certificate for him.

There was also a William Watson farm in the townland too.

Henry’s marriage to Elizabeth was evidently around 1834, so well before the start of statutory marriage registration (1845). To find it you would need to rely on church records, and to do that you would need to know her denomination and where she lived. Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church. Her husband appears to have been Church of Ireland but she might have been a different denomination eg Presbyterian.   And if you only know she may have come from Armagh, that’s a lot of church records to search through. Not all of which may have survived. You could go to PRONI and search through all the Church of Ireland records for Armagh. (That’s 28 parishes). The records are not all on-line so a personal visit would be required to search them all.

http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/armagh/maps/civil-parishes-of-county-armagh.php#.Wp5doBR2ug0

Don’t expect too much information from a church marriage register in the 1830s. Often you don’t get much more than the couples names, the date and their 2 witnesses. No parents names for example.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Elwyn, thank you so much for all the information! It's a wonderful summary which I'll digest and work into my own findings.

Where I'm stuck is learning about the location of the parents of Elizabeth McCall wife of John Watson born 1804. I know they were Ch. of I. as Eliz. brother went into Ch of I. ministry and she married a Ch. of I. man. It is possible Eliz. went from her married home in Tamnaskeeny to her Mother, the unknown Mrs. McCall, for the births.

Given an absence of records for Eliz. McCall's parents Mr. + Mrs. McCall, what would be your best guess for their location?

Would I look for McCall homes(Griffiths) near where future husband John Watson b 1804 lived and assume it was them? People often married in small circles of Church or school friends, or relatives.

We believe Elizabeth McCall was the sister of William McCall of Tullyroan as I have a strong DNA match there: (William McCall Birth 8 April 1801 • Lisdrumard, Armagh, Ireland. POSSIBLE bapt. location/date. "McCall William 1809-10-20 - Baptis. Record. St. Anne's, Shankill, Ch.of Ire, Co. Antrim. Father-William, Mother-Mary McCall. Minister William Holmes, Curate. 'rootsireland.ie')

To view my tree on ancestry.com :  tree name: MERGED AUG.4.2012 . User name: pbgish . My Grandfather's name is George Whitfield Knipe.

I appreciate this help so much! Being in Canada and unfamiliar with the area, I find it confusing to work out 'what makes sense' geographically and socially, the logical links between people.

Thank you, Peggy Gish (n.Knipe)

( a heads up: I tried doing a reply to reply and it said I needed to sign up for the page/site, which I already have. It gave an error message. I tried several times and something opened to allow me to reply. I'm on Safari using a Mac.)

 

 

pbgish@yahoo.ca

Hi. Still a bit unsure how to work this site and request replies, I hope this works!

I'm hoping for further replies to my post above, with a short focus here below. I'm wishing to find the place of birth for Elizabeth McCall, see below. And her parents names/location.

Most likely they would be Church of Ireland, less likely Presbyterian.

"We believe Elizabeth McCall was the sister of William McCall of Tullyroan as I have a strong DNA match there: (William McCall Birth 8 April 1801 • Lisdrumard, Armagh, Ireland, his POSSIBLE bapt. location/date. "McCall William 1809-10-20 - Baptis. Record. St. Anne's, Shankill, Ch.of Ire, Co. Antrim. Father-William, Mother-Mary McCall. Minister William Holmes, Curate. 'rootsireland.ie')"

Thank you for all suggestions! Peggy. BC Canada. 

pbgish@yahoo.ca

Peggy,

I didn’t see your reply on 6th March 2018 and have only picked it up now. If the McCall family came from Lisdrumard, Co. Armagh then that’s in the parish of Lisnadill. Lisnadill’s Church of Ireland records were destroyed in the 1922 fire in Dublin, and so if that’s where she came from, you are not going to find a record of it.

The baptism in Shankill, Belfast you have found is very unlikely to be for her family, in my opinion, unless she came from Belfast. Bear in mind that most Church of Ireland records are not on-line yet. Belfast Shankill (which is a huge parish) has put it’s records on-line which is why the name comes up, but in my opinion it’s just a coincidence. Families from rural Armagh or Tyrone would not baptise their children there. (Tamnaskeeny to Belfast is about 50 miles. Lisdrumard to Belfast is about 40 miles).

I agree that people usually married locally. Most courting in the early 1800s was done on foot. So you married someone within walking distance of where you lived. Usually within a few miles.  Tamnaskeeny and Lisdrumard are about 30 miles apart, so that’s much further than you usually find. Difficult to know how a farmer from Tamnaskeeny (near Cookstown) would meet a lady from Lisdrumard between Armagh & Caledon, but I can’t say it didn’t happen.

Tamnaskeeny is in Kildress parish. Their Church of Ireland records start in 1794. They are not on-line but there is a copy in PRONI in Belfast. Have you searched them for Elizabeth’s baptism? The nearest Presbyterian church to Tamnskeeny appears to be Orritor. Their marriage records start in 1827, so that should cover the years you are interested in ie the 1830s. Again the records are not on-line. There’s a copy in PRONI though.

If you are unable to go yourself, you could employ a researcher. Researchers in the PRONI area: http://sgni.net

 

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Sept 6, 2021. 

UPDATE to PREVIOUS MESSAGES:

I hoping fthere may be further info on the Mother + Father of the Elizabeth McCall (m. to John Watson b.1804 of Tamnaskeeny* var. spellings*) previously mentioned. 

 I'm hoping to find the place of birth for Elizabeth McCall, and her parent's names and location.

She was possibly born approx. 1812, but I have no proof for that. We're assuming she was born in Armagh as all family connections are there.

Her death and marriage details are in previous posts attached.

We believe Elizabeth McCall m. Watson was the sister of William McCall b. 8 April 1801, who farmed at Tullyroan, Armagh. (I have a strong DNA match there: William McCall Birth 8 April 1801,  Armagh, Ireland).

The Watson and Knipe families were highly educated, many had University degrees, were Ministers, Teachers and Doctors, this may give a clue to the McCall family and how a McCall met a Watson. They may have ventured further from home given their education opportunities.

They would be Church of Ireland, The son of Elizabeth McCall m.Watson, Rev. John Watson, (who was brother to my Gr.Grandmother Martha Ann Watson), was a Church of Ireland clergy as were several other family members. 

(I've removed previous birth info for William as we now know that wasn't correct.

Thank you for all suggestions! Peggy. BC Canada. email:  pbgish@yahoo.ca

pbgish@yahoo.ca

There was one McCall household in the 1901 census, and they were Methodist. However Methodism hadn’t become established as a separate denomination in Ireland in 1812, so that family would almost certainly have been Church of Ireland at that period:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Tullyroan/Tullyroan/1016306/

Tullyroan is in the parish of Clonfeacle. Sadly all Clonfeacle Church of Ireland’s early records were destroyed in the 1922 fire and there are none for the period you need. I don’t see any easy way of linking Elizabeth & William McCall.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Hi, I'm not sure if I can help as there have been a lot of  diverse townlands mentioned here.

However if we go back to William and Elizabeth McCall of Tullyroan.

I am a descendant of their through their daughter Lucinda and I have DNA matches to support these. We also believe that Elizabeth was Elizabeth Joyce from Levaghery, Portadown and again the Dna matches support this. 
I actually live in this area so if I can help please get in touch.

Have you done a dna test - we could see if we match.

I also have notice the name Watson crop up in my matches. I am on a few sites and also GEDMATCH.

I hope this helps.

PS the MCalls seemed to move about as my branch ended up in Tullyallen, County Armagh.

best wishes,

Elaine 

ellieb123@btin…

Elaine. Thank you for your reply. I'm just getting back to this site, a long delay!

Yes, I have William and Elizabeth Joyce info. 

What I'm looking for is the parents of William McCall, who we believe to be the brother of my GGGrandmother Elizabeth (poss. Caroline) McCall who married John Watson of Tamnaskeeny as mentioned in previous posts. 

Do you have info on William's birth family, please? I'm familiar with Collin's info who has posted various possibilities about William, but we don't have solid proof. Do you have anything different from hers?

Thank you. Peggy (email pbgish@yahoo.ca . NOT .com)

 

pbgish@yahoo.ca

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