Mcardle - Travel from Forkill County Armagh to Ontario, Canada in the late 1830s

Elwyn and Roger …….

Thank you very much for your replies.  I have been somewhat puzzled why my family would have left Ireland in the late 1830’s before the start of the potato famine, I am sure they were not clairvoyant, so your simple and logically answer above makes good sense since in the early 1830’s many Irish came to the Westport and Kingston area to work on the Rideau Canal and to cut timber in the nearby forests.  So a chain immigration of family and friends makes a lot of sense.

In answer to your question on autosomal DNA testing, yes I did have it done by Ancestry DNA and I also sent the raw data to Family Tree DNA.  So far the only folks that I have found to be a close match are individuals I have known most of my life.  Lots of possible 3rd to 5th cousins and a few 2nd to 4th cousins I have yet to look into.

I most likely would never have known about the Dundalk to Liverpool ferry service without your information, this answers a question that I have wondered about off and on for a while as to why all the ships left Liverpool for Canada or the United States and few sailed from Ireland.  Looking at the map a trip from Dundalk to Liverpool would be a good way to go to Canada.   

Since you have done so well on the above questions, how about another general question, I am working with an individual in Canada on Forkill families that came to Westport, his branch were McCardles and arrived five or so years after my McArdles.  Looking at the 1864 Valuation for Forkill there are no McCardles listed.  Our working theory is that we are related and the issue is just the spelling of the names.  I am beginning to think McArdle and McCardle are two separate Irish names of long standing in Ireland and a change of spelling from one to the other is not a real possibly.  I should point out that in Canada the local parish priests began spelling McArdle as McConnell.  What do you think?

Thanks again,

Phil aka RiverBaron

Elwyn ………..

Thank you again for your clear insight into what was going on in Ireland when my ancestors where leaving to come to Canada, it helps a lot to know the area history when looking at their lives, something we tend to forget when we are researching our families. I was hoping that I had enough information on my McArdle folks to jump the “pond” from Canada to Ireland, it now appears in general I do not, so I will let my hired Irish genealogist push on with his research in Ireland and I will work a little harder to see what I can find out about their arrival and their early days in Canada.

However, since you have been so helpful I have another Irish puzzle I would like to ask you about. Again this is not a research request, it is more a general question on what do I have and was it a common thing to do. What I have is what appears to be an Irish Post Card that has been in my family for a number of years. I say Post Card because on the back it says Post Card. On the front it is a full card size picture of a single grave marker. The marker says “Erected to the memory of JAMES FLEMING Kilmacree who died June 14th 1877 aged 86 years also his wife BRIDCET who died October 15th 1885 aged 84 years also WILLIAM UNDERWOOD who died October 6th 1909 aged 32 years and his father William who died November 6th 1912 aged 78 years” also written on the front of the card, in ink, is William Doyle who died November 4th 1940 aged 48 years RIP. On the back of the card there is no stamp but a message/comment dated January 1977 in my aunt’s hand writing which says “My guess is this is a tombstone somewhere in Ireland (County Clare?) I’m guessing because of the name Doyle. My grandfather, Miles Fleming arranged and brought a cousin – Matt Doyle – from Ireland shortly after World War I. Leila Walker St. Ignace, Mich. daughter of Anastasia Fleming Robinson and of course, the name Fleming.”

For the record, Miles Fleming was born 15 Aug 1847 in County Wexford, Ireland. Anastasia Fleming was the daughter of Mary Anne McArdle born in Westport Canada. The names James, Bridget, William are repeated many times on my Fleming side of the family, in fact my middle name is William. Leila Walker is my mother’s sister, born Leila Robinson. Also for the record, Matthew Doyle, born abt 1905, shows up in the 1930 U. S. Federal Census living with William Fleming (Miles’ son) in Bear Creek Township, Emmet, Michigan.

Thanks,
Phil

Elwyn …………

 

When I asked about the Irish Post Card I didn’t mean for it to turn into a research project on your part, I was expecting something like it was a common practice in the early 1900s for folks to take grave stone pictures and to sell or give them to the family, but thank you for doing more than I expected.

 

Between what my mother told me, your information, and some I dug up in the last week or so, I think I have a reasonable picture of these individuals in this family, so I will tell you a story based on this information to see what you think.  But before I do let me add two more players:  Mary Ann McArdle and her sister Ellen McArdle (both born in Westport, Canada).

 

According to my mother, based on discussions with her uncle William Fleming, his father Miles Arthur Fleming was born in County Wexford on August 15, 1847 [we now know he was born in Ballykelly, Piercetown, Wexford].  According to Uncle Bill, Miles’ older brother James Fleming and a friend of his a Mr. Egan paid $40 apiece for their passage from Ireland to New York.  After they had been there awhile both James and Mr. Egan sent $40 apiece back to Ireland to pay for Miles Fleming and Mr. Egan’s brother to come to America.  They arrived in New York penniless in either 1865 or 1866.  Miles listed both dates on census forms, 1865 was listed when he was younger.  They then worked all winter in a New York brick yard and saved their money, got to Chicago and then took a boat up the Mississippi River to Lake City, Minnesota.  I do not know what happened to James Fleming or to either of the Egans, however, Miles Fleming [my great-grandfather] married Mary Ann McArdle of Westport in Wabasha County Minnesota on May 20, 1874, raised their family and ended up in Bear Creek Township, Emmet County, Michigan where he died on January 23, 1923.

 

The rest of the story, which I just sorted out, based on your information and on RC Church Registers from the National Library of Ireland is as follows: Miles parents were James Fleming and Bridget Howlin who were married on February 14, 1831 in Piercetown.  They had the following children all born in Ballykelly and baptized on the dates listed: Ellen-7 Jan 1832, James-8 Jan 1835, Mary- 19 Mar 1838, Ellen- 27 Jun 1841, Francis- 12 Jun 1844, Miles- 15 Aug 1847, Ellen- 25 Mar 1850.  Not sure why 3 Ellen’s, I understand if one died that name would be used again, but I do not think this is the case here.

 

I did find a marriage record for whom I believe to be Ellen (1841) marrying a William Underwood [the father listed on the grave marker, I should note that my mother told me that Ellen McArdle married an Underwood – I think she may have mixed up the Ellen’s].  Based on the facts that: the fathers are all James Flemings, that the Underwood’s are related to the Flemings, the names are all on the same marker, plus the fact that the generational dates all seem to work, I am of the opinion that the James and Bridcet Flemings shown on the grave marker are Miles grandparents.  I have almost no clue as to how the Doyle’s fit into this picture and they are not a priority for me, but the fact that somebody added a Doyle name in pen on the post card I think helps support my opinion.

 

Having said all the above, I have three questions (sorry):

1. Do you think my story is more or less correct?

2. Are death dates available in Ireland for Miles brothers and sisters?

3. What is your best guess as to the route James and Miles would have taken to New York?

 

Sorry this is so long, but I thought you would like to know how your help worked out.  I’m not sure how Ireland XO is organized but I suspect you may be nowhere near County Wexford and my questions are becoming more centered on County Wexford, so if it makes sense to have somebody else closer to County Wexford become involved I fully understand.

 

Thanks,

Phil

 

 

 

Phil - I think we may share a common ancestor, I am descendent from Mary McCann McArdle's brother John McCann. I was hoping we could compare some notes.

Terri

jmtm0604@msn.com
 

Terri .........

I would be happy to compare notes.  I will send you a separate email to the address you provided.

But to update anybody else who may be following this chain I have made some progress on locating Michael McArdle in the past few months.  I now have a a copy of his Intention to become a U. S. Citizen that he filed with the District Court, 13th Judicial District.  In that document he states that he was born in the County Armagh, Ireland on or about 1813 and that he emigrated to the U.S. and landed at the port Huron Michigan on or about July 1856.  I should add that this document was subscribed and sworn to on January 10, 1889.  A couple of other comments, the District Court is located in Pipestone County, Minnesota.  Additionally, this document was signed by Michael with an "X" and the spelling of his name on the document is "Michael McCardle".  I should also note that his wife Mary McCann and his daughter Mary Anne McCardle Fleming were all living in Pipestone County at this time.  As a point of interest, the various RC priests at St.Edwards Catholic Church in Westport, Ontario, Canada spelled the family name several various ways when recording family births in the church records.

Phil

 

 

 

 

 

I have McArdle relatives from Forkhill from the late 1600's to late1700's. All are buried in the same grave in Castletown Old Graveyard in Dundalk. They include Patrick McArdle born around 1660, sons James b 1682 d 1711, Edward b 1698 d 1778, Philip b 1703 d 1781, daughter Ellinor b 1711, d 1787. Edward's wife was named Lettice (unknown last name) b 1712 d 1768. Ellinor's husband was Patrick Fitzsimons b 1710. I have not been able to link these McArdle's to my great great grandfather Robert McArdle (b 1830 Newry, d 1881 Dundalk) and wife Margaret Mary Callan (b 1830 d 1909) who are also buried in the same cemetary plot in Castletown Old Graveyard. My DNA results are on Ancestry DNA and Family Tree DNA (kit 902318, Clan Colla and McMahon Projects) I have also hired a professional genealogist and have a report I would be happy to share. I would love to compare notes with anyone that is interested.

Jack McArdle

jackmcardl@aol.com

Jack .........

First let me apology for missing your January 2018 Post.

I have looked thru your list of relatives and none of them seem to match anybody we know about in our McArdle/McCardle family tree.  We have traced our McArdles back to the 1821 Irish census and found John McArdle (1786 - ?) and Catherine McCann (1788 - ?) both living with their children in Carrive Townland, County Armargh at the time of the census.  We have also traced 4 of their 5 children to Canada and later to the USA.  I looked in my Ancestry and Family Tree DNA accounts and did not see anything that looked like a DNA match with you, however, people I know are related to me often do not show up as DNA matchs to me.

Hope this helps, if you have additional questions, please feel free to get back to me.

Phil Jones