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Matthew Bell

Mullaghbrack (Armagh)

Good morning

I am researching my Bell ancestors from Mullaghbrack, Derryrain areas. My 2x great grandfather was Robert Bell born 1838 who married a Margaret Allen 1841 at Markethill on 16th October 1860, they were Presbyterians, Roberts father was Matthew Bell, Farmer and Margaret's was James Allen, also a farmer. I have found what i think to be siblings of Robert and Margaret, and for a good while i followed the wrong line, the Matthew Bell, i followed was an Auctioneer, who married a Maria Moffatt, they had a son Robert, who was training to be a doctor, my Robert was a weaver, i do not believe this to be my line.,,, So i am looking for some help with Matthew born possibly 1802 and James Allen

Can anyone help, i would very much like to know the name of Matthews wife

Lynn Lawrence

7 replies

Griffiths Valuation for 1864 lists Matthew Bell in Derryraine. He had plot 14 a 7 acre farm. There were other Bells in that townland who might be related. (Benjamin, Hans).

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameS…

The Valuation revision records on the PRONI site take Griffiths forwards. That shows the farm remaining in Matthew’s name till 1889 when it changes to Hugh Bell. And he only farms the land. The house is sublet to a William James Cochrane. So that points to Matthew having died around that time. Here’s Matthew’s death in 1887. Informant was son Hugh. Matthew’s wife had pre-deceased him.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1887/06199/4772882.pdf

Hugh Bell married a Mary Bell, also of Derryraine in 1877:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1877/11132/8075917.pdf

I notice they married in the Register Office. So it’s possible they were Brethren at that time. They look to have sold up and moved to Durham shortly after Matthew’s death. There are trees on Ancestry that show them there, 1891 census onwards. Hugh died in Durham in 1918. One of the trees gives Matthew’s wife as Margaret. Death registration started in Ireland in 1864. I searched 1864 to 1887 but did not find an adult Magt Bell death so suspect she died before 1864, in which case there may not be a record.

You say the families were Presbyterian. Margaret Allen’s marriage was in Markethill 1st Presbyterian. Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church. So that may be where she was baptised. That church’s baptism records start in 1843, marriages in 1845, so it probably doesn’t go back far enough to find her baptism, though you might find a sibling born later.

Markethill 2nd’s records start in 1821 so if the Bells happened to attend that church then you may find more. Copies of both sets of records are in PRONI in Belfast.

Griffiths doesn’t list James Allen in 1864 so I suspect he was already dead. There was an Ann Allen farming plot 3 and a Margaret Allen farming plot 6. Both are likely to be widows and either might be Margaret’s mother.  You might want to search the death records on irishgenealogy 1864 onwards to see if you can find either death.

Derryraine in the 1901 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Hamiltons_Bawn/…

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Hello Elwyn

Many thanks for replying to my message, i really do appreciate your time and help.  Yes, you are right they did come to Durham uk, some before Matthew died and some after, he lived to be a really good age didn't he , i worked it out that he was probably born around 1802, so a grand old man when he died.

I dont suppose there are many records for that early, i would have loved to have known Matthews wifes name, but i think that has long been lost and forgotten. 

I haven't been able to find anything on James Allen, so i think, like you, he probably died  before1864, i will carry on looking in the hopes that i can " marry up " some siblings of both Robert and Margaret, it's interesting to see that he had 7 acres of land,  Is this quite a lot for the time and area i wonder.  

How i wish i could go back in time to meet these amazing people who are my flesh and blood, i feel so attached to them even tho i never knew of or about them untill recently.

Again a huge thank you for your help,  i now know i am following my right family, god bless Lynn, formally Bell

 

Lynn Lawrence

No, 7 acres wasn’t a big farm. That was scraping a living (though you do see households with less land than that). It obviously depends on the quality of the land but in general 15 to 20 acres or more would have given a good living. 7 acres meant you might struggle at times. If it was a really profitable farm Hugh or one of his brothers would have stayed on it. The wages were clearly better in Durham and that’ll be why they left.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Evening. Not sure if i can assist you with your query as i expect you know much more than i. have read your question with much interest as i the grandson of james bell and isabella allen of derryraine, county armagh. my father was stanley matthew bell of nanaimo, b.c. . without reviewing my genealogy i believe my great grandfather was robert bell and his wife margaret of derryraine having moved to durham to work in the coal mines there. regards. Lawrence Bell 

kanakaincowich…

How very amiss of me not to have seen this added reply sooner, WW Paddler,    sincerest apologies , i took a break from all things " genealogy " for a while as it begins to take over ones life lol,   Hello  new found cousin, i do know of your father, Stanley Matthew, and yes we are both related to Robert and Margaret,    this is fabulous news,     i hope we can connect soon,     Best wishes, Lynn, formally Bell

Lynn Lawrence

Afternoon cousin lynn. How nice to hear from you. i did not find your reply till today. i only dabble in genealogy i admit but interacting with a new relative makes this so much more personal. years ago on a forum i received a letter from a cousin in bangor n. ireland a relative of isabelle allen my grandmother. she wrote it with my name to vancouver island, bc canada and i received it. we wrote to each other but letters and envelopes are not my best. hence we stopped to the occassional christmas card. 

indeed fabulous news to hear from you. from what i understand you are on grandfathers (james bell) brothers family? thanks. Larry

 

kanakaincowich…

Hi Larry,   thank you so much for replying, i am tickled pink to hear from you.   

yes, my great grandfather was Thomas Bell, your James's brother, they were both sons of Robert Bell and Margaret Allen from Derryraine, Markethill area of Armagh. I have your Father, Stanley in my tree,

There were 9 siblings, John, Jane, Thomas, Robert, Margaret, James , William, Matthew and Elizabeth

Thomas came to Durham UK with Margaret  and lived until  1930, i have recently found a photo of his grave

My grandfather, Matthew Dawson Bell was a son of Thomas and Mary Dawson

My Father was Thomas Bell, first child of Matthew Dawson Bell and Lily Bate

I do have quite a bit of information on my tree, although the Irish side do drive me to distraction at times.    

I will leave my email address here for you Cousin Larry, then we can communicate better 

It would be fabulous to hear from you

Best wishes

Lynn

lynnlawrence61@outlook.com

 

Lynn Lawrence

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