I am related to both of these families who lived in and around Drumbo and attended Drumbo Presbyterian Church in the 1800's and emigrated to the USA in the late 1800's.
Johnston, Irvine & Erskine are all very common names in Co. Down. Can you be a bit more specific? Give us the full names of the people you are interested in, roughly when they were born and who they married (if they married in Ireland) and I’ll see if I can trace them for you.
You can also search this Co. Down website to see if any of the entries relate to your families.
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~rosdavies/genealogy/SURNAMES/Afrontpage…
Elwyn:
Thank you for your reply. I've got a posting on Ros' site also.
Here we go:
My great grandfather was Samuel Johnston born around 1859 in Drumbo. He was the son of David Johnston and Mary Eliza Irvine of Drumbo. That marriage occurred on September 9, 1848 in the Drumbo Presbyterian Church. I do not know if Samuel had any siblings.
David was born around 1828 in Drumbo. His father was Andrew Johnston, as listed in his marriage entry at the Drumbo Church. There is a possiblity he was illegitmate as there was a baptism record in Drumbo Church on May 15, 1828 for a boy named David. I do not know if these two latter births are in the same line of the Andrew named in David's marriage certificate . Eliza Johnston (residence Ballycoan) was listed as having a child, David, on April 9, 1828. No father's name was listed. [This is odd since Eliza's residence was listed as Ballycoan - there is a Ballycoan Road just outside of Belfast and her last name was listed as Johnston. Maybe the mother was a sister named Jane?] [There is another baptismal entry at the Church on April 10, 1836 for a child, John born on March 27, 1836 to Andrew and John Johnston]
Mary Eliza was born around 1826. Her father, per the marriage certificate, was named William. David and William were neighbors (per Griffith's Valuation in 1863 in Drumbo Townland. Andrew farmed in Ballynagarick Townland.
I do not know for sure Andrew's wife's name, but I suspect it was Sarah since she died in Ballynagarrick Townland. Her death certificate did indcate that she was a "widow PENSIONER". I'm currently (trying to ) check Royal Irish Constabulary pension records to see if Sarah's deceased (AND PENSIONED) husband's name can be identified. If no success, then I will check British Army and Navy records too.[This is not easy going for a novice foreigner to do !!]
I do not know William's wife's name. Per his death certificate, Andrew was born about 1793-1796. If Sarah was his wife, her death certificate indicates she was born around 1796. I do not know what her last name was.
David's siblings include:
Isaac (1839-1916). He farmed, etc. in Leverogue Townland. He was married to Mary Cairns in a COI, probably Ballylesson. I know the names of Isaac's children. Upon his father Andrew's death Isaac was listed as farming on the Ballynagarrick property also per Griffith's Revisions 1881. Andrew died on April 18, 1877.
William (married to Eliza)
Andrew (abt.1823 - ??)
Jane (abt. 1818-1890)
John (abt. 1842)
Samuel Johnston (living in Belfast at the time of his marriage - occupation - carrier) married Margaret Scott (of Finnard Townland outside of Newry - daughter William Scott, Jr. and Jane McCullough - Benagh Townland at Downshire Road Presbyterian Church) in Rostrevor Presbyterian Church on June 21, 1883. To my knowledge they had only one child, my grandmother , Mary (Minnie). Minnie died in NYC in 1919. Minnie supposedly was born in Ireland about 1888. There are entires that I have not personally seen in Ryans Presbyterian Church's (located in Finnard Townland) indicating that a William Scott and a William Scott, Jr., were seatholders.
I have a separate posting pending for the Scott/McCullough families.
I hope I have not confused nor over burdened you .
I can see 1 Andrew Johnston in Ballynagarrick in Griffiths Valuation (1863). He was on plot 29 which was a 5 acre farm. The Valuation Revision books show him remaining as tenant until 1881 when it passes to Isaac Johnston. Isaac remains there till 1918 when he is replaced by Richard Mason.
Isaac married Mary Cairns in Lisburn register Office on 28.1.1857. The certificate confirms his father was Andrew Johnston.
Isaac & Mary are in the 1901 & 1911 censuses. They were Church of Ireland and had 8 children of which 1 was still alive.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Drumbo/Ballynagarrick/248044/
Isaac died in 1916. His will should be in PRONI (in paper format). You can view it free if you go there or they will copy it for you, for a fee. Here’s the abstract:
Probate of the Will of Isaac Johnston late of Ballymagarrick County Down Surfaceman who died 16 May 1916 granted at Belfast to Robert Carmichael and Charles Crawford Farmers.
You have evidently found Andrew Johnston’s death. Was he a widower, or married? That should help tell you whether the Sarah death in 1880 may be his wife. If she died before 1864, you know the family were Church of Ireland, so you could search Drumbo burial records for her. Their burials start in 1792.
The death you have found in 1880 for Sarah is certainly of a woman of about the right age. To me the term “pensioner’s widow” suggests military or naval service rather than the RIC. Usually where they served with the RIC a death certificate says “RIC” or “Police” pension. There are some military records on Ancestry and Findmypast but the main records (which are not on-line) are held in the National Archives, in Kew, London. There’s a copy of the RIC records in PRONI and some of their pension records are on Ancestry.
You might find Andrew & Sarah’s marriage in the Drumbo Church of Ireland records. However tradition was to marry in the bride’s church, after which she’d attend her husband’s, so there’s always the possibility they married elsewhere, especially if she was born Presbyterian or Unitarian (both are found in that area).
Any children born to David Johnston & Mary Eliza Irvine in the Drumbo area from 1864 onwards ought to be in the statutory records. I searched 1864 to 1873 but did not find any. You would need to search the Church of Ireland baptism records to locate any born 1848-1863.
Regarding Minnie Johnston born c 1888, I see a birth that fits that. There was a Mary Jane Johnston born 4th May 1889 at 53 Abbott St, Belfast to Samuel & Margaret. (Minnie is a common diminutive for Mary).
Elwyn:
Thank you for your reply, not the first time you have helped on this branch!
Isaac's will is not imaged for on line review at PRONI. I'm not sure what info might be in it that assists me in confirming who Andrew's wife was, unless I get a lead on some of his grandchildren and they are still alive (or their offspring are) and someone has a family tree, etc. So, getting an actual copy doesn't seem worth the cost, unless you disagree. The marriage entry at a church seems to be a better lead.
When Andrew died he was still married, to whom is the question. Thank you for your suggestions. Searching the military records is like wading through mud! That's why I hoped he was in the RIC, which seemed a bit easier to search. I'll check the COI records for a marriage as Isaac's marriage to Mary Cairns was a civil marriage at the Registrar's Office (they might have had a church wedding thereafter, probably at a COI church in Ballylesson since the family subsequesntly worshipped and had children baptized at a COI, probably that COI church in Ballylesson). But, that brings up anther issue: it is difficult to discern which church records in general PRONI has available on line for review. It does not seem like there is much. That, then, requires a swim across the pond to visit "the old country", or hiring someone to go to PRONI to do that for me. Any tips on how to see if any particular records are on line for review at PRONI, and equally imporant, how to actually find them on line? I need to do that also for the Scott/McCullough line down in Newry, especially the Downshire Road, Ryans, and Rostrevor Presbyterian Churches and the same for the McMullan/McFadden line up in Antrim - Bushvale, Armoy, Mosside , etc., Prebyterian Churches.
As to children of David and Mary, I haven't found any on line, even the birth of Samuel. I did previously at PRONI find a baptism for him at Drumbo Presbyterian Church. Sadly, I believe I did find a death certificate for Mary Eliza Irvine Johnston, David's wife. She died on or about March 6, 1875. She was 52 and that fits with her age specified in her marriage certificate. The cause of death was "exposure to cold while under the influence of drink" and she had been dead a day or two per the certificate. Her husband (not named) was specified as a stone mason and small farmer. There are two quarries near where they lived in Drumbo Townland. Why he was away for that period of time was not stated in the certificate.
As to Mary (Minnie) Johnston, I never saw her name with a middle name before! But, I also only saw 1 or 2 references to "Mary" in records. Even her marriage and death certificates listed her as Minnie. I had previosuly found an address for Samuel Johnston in Belfast, but did not think that was him. Now I know he was in Belfast and where! Many thanks for that piece of info.
Somewhat amazingly, I've never found the Johnstons in emigration records to the USA, but they did emigrate after USA record keeping became energized. Whether they came into Castle Garden or subsequently Ellis Island remains a mystery.
Finally, I could not find on the XO website how to link up with a volunteer for the Drumbo, Newry, or Antrim (Ballymoney) areas. How do I do that?
Donmaccal,
Isaac’s will is unlikely to tell you Andrew’s wife’s name. I merely mentioned in case you were interested in seeing how he disposed of his estate, and what descendants he had at the time. He is likely to have mentioned some in the will, I would have thought. Your best bet for finding Andrew’s wife’s name are church baptism records in PRONI. If you are unable to go yourself, you could employ a researcher. Researchers in the PRONI area: http://sgni.net
Isaac & Mary married in the Register Office. They couldn’t have had a church wedding as well. You can’t marry the same person twice. Well not legally. They could have had a blessing ceremony but that wouldn’t appear in any church registers. (If they had, irregularly, married twice, there would be 2 separate entries in the statutory records. One for each ceremony. There’s only the one, so I think we can rule that out.)
You ask about which church records PRONI has on-line. The short answer is none. They aren’t on-line. They are mainly on microfilm. A few are originals or paper transcripts. You have to go in person to view them. All you get on-line are details on what years the records cover etc. (PRONI does have some other records on-line eg wills, the Ulster Covenant, the Valuation Records etc. But no church records.). A few years ago the PRONI Director explained that their policy is to make their records available free. Putting them on-line would mean charging (to cover the costs) and that goes against the spirit of what they aim to do. Such money as they do have is used conserving existing records and acquiring new ones, but the bulk of their collection is not on-line.
You can write to Drumbo Church and ask the Rector/Vicar to search the original records. If he/she agrees to do that, there is usually a fee of about £20 an hour.
Mary Johnston’s death was reported in the Northern Whig of 9th March 1875. Various details are mentioned including that she lived with her husband, father in law and mother in law. She had gone into Lisburn to get some whisky and to spend the night with her sister. Her husband was away working at the quarry and not expected back for a couple of days. (This may account for her not being missed at home). She and her sister went on what can only be described as a bit of a pub crawl. They visited 4 or 5 pubs in Drumbo and Lisburn. On the way home they were both a little “tired and emotional”, and the sister became ill and had to be put to bed in someone else’s house. Mary however continued on down the road alone. She was never seen alive again. She was eventually missed and relatives organised a search. This led to the discovery of her body in a ploughed field. Her clothes were considerably dis-arranged, her parcels, an unopened jar of whisky were beside her along with a basket and another article. However a bottle of whisky that she had evidently been drinking from was missing. Immediately beside where she was found there was a trench 5 or 6 foot deep with about a foot of water in it. From marks on the side of the trench it appears she probably fell in it and had struggled to get back out. She had some scratches and bruises but there was no sign of anything sinister. As you say, the doctor’s opinion was she had died from exposure to the cold whilst under the influence of drink. The jury duly returned that verdict.
Regarding finding a volunteer to help you, I am the volunteer for the Ballymoney area, so if you have any queries about it, let me know. Thanks also for letting us know that you weren’t clear how to arrange that. We are reviewing the website at the moment and so comments like that are very helpful. We’ll try and make it clearer as to what you have to do.
Drumbo and Newry are a bit far for me to travel (I live in Co Antrim) but I’ll ask our Volunteer Co-ordinator if she can find anyone to help you.
Elwyn:
Many thanks again. Where did you find the Northern Whig article? On line?
As to Ballymoney, you may not have wished to divulge that info! I have my name line (McMullan) living there in the 1880's until they emigrated to the USA in the mid 1880's. My great great grandfather, Edward McMullan, was married to Mary McFadden in 1862 at the Drumbo Presbyterian Church. I have their marriage certificate. Mary's father was listed as Daniel McFadden. One of the witnesses was listed as Adam McFadden, which I suppose was her brother. Daniel lived in Livery Townland until his death in 1875. Mary's (and Edward's ) residences were both listed as Drumafivey which I believe was/is in Livery Townland and was or was near to the house of that name owned by the Reynolds family. Whether that is the same as Stranocum Hall I do not presently know, but Livery Townland is adjacent to Stranocum. Some of their children were born at Drumafivey House. Some were baptized at Bushvale Presbyterian Church. I contacted the Pastor of that Church. It has baptismal records at the Church. I inquired as to whether anyone could review those records, but I have not gotten a response.
Edward's father was listed as David McMullan. He and his wife, Elizabeth Through (spelling?? this was on his death certificate in New York City which incorrectly identified him as Edwin (but it is the same person per his burial record and that record also indicated that his father's name was Thomas)). The 1851 Census lists Edward as a son of David and Elizabeth and that he was not at the family's home in Ballybregagh (sometimes spelled as Ballycreagh). I have seen and been told that this Townland is outside Ballymena in Loughguille Parish, but this Townland also does exist in the Stranocum/Armoy area near Livery per Griffith's Valuation. Edward's oldest son was named Arcabald (Archibald). He also was not home at the time of the census. I found an Archibald at roughly the same age working/living in Araboy Townland in Ballintoy Parish. I have a marriage record for an Archibald on May 22,1858 at Ballymena 3rd Presbyterian Church (bride = Sarah ONeill). There is also another Archibald marriage occuring in Ballymoney in 1877.
Presently, I'm trying to find out who David's father and mother were, as well as Daniel McFadden's wife and their fathers and mothers. I suspect based on naming protocols that David's father was named Archibald [although the family might not have followed the norm: Edward's oldest son was named Daniel and a David was the last born of Edward's sons] . The 1803 Agricultural Census lists an Archibald living in Toreagh Townland, Parish of Armoy. That is a stone's throw from Ballybregagh/Ballycreagh and Drumbo Presbyterian Church. I have a death registration for an Archibald dying on June 14, 1896. I think that this person is probably David's brother, however. This Archibald was listed as dying at age 79. This would seem to make his birth date around 1817. Based on David's listed age in the 1851 Census, David was born around 1807. If David's father was an Archibald, then I estimate that that person would have been born around 1786-1790. Unless someone else is researching this particular line, I will have to examine Presbyterian Church records in person next year.
There is a will for the Archibald who died in 1896 in Moycraig Lower. His wife was Hannah. 3 children are identified: William John, Martha and Ellen.
David died in Seacon Lower on May 16, 1868 (he fell and injured himself, apparently seriously - paralyzed dying 30 days later in the presence of a Susan McMullan. His wife, Mary died later that same year in December of leukemia and she had been ill for sometime with that. I have their death certificates.
I've worshipped at the Drumbo Church and drove around the area where Stanocum is and stopped at an eatery: Chippers Chippy. I should have looked at the sign on the adjacent store: J. McFadden Grocery and inquired if they were descendants of Daniel McFadden!!
My wife has a branch of her family from Kilraghts! Her ancestor was name Borland and he was a Presbyterian, probably at the First Presbyterian Church in Kilraghts as there are Borlands buried there.
donmaccal,
The Northern Whig Article is on the British Newspapers Archive. That’s a subscription site. https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk
Regarding Bushvale Presbyterian, they have baptism records from 1858 and marriages from 1848. The church was founded in 1793 (then known as 2nd Kilraghts) but there are no records for the first 50/60 years. If you don’t get a reply from the Minister, PRONI has a copy of the surviving records, so you can always check them there. Some Ministers are pretty good about responding, others find they get rather more genealogical enquiries than they care to deal with. So some reply and some don’t.
Regarding where Edward & Mary McMullan lived, I looked at the births of their children. There’s some moving around. That was absolutely normal for labourers. They often moved to follow available work. Then they settled in Ballycregagh. (Ballycregagh Lower to be specific). The Valuation revision books show Edward with a cottage on land rented by the Reynolds family, (plot 5Ab). His name is deleted in 1885. The location is off the modern Fivey Rd, half a mile east of Bushvale Presbyterian church. The Valuation Revision records indicate 2 cottages were there in 1885 (5Aa & 5Ab). It’s unlikely the cottages will still be standing today but you never know.
Nancy 27.6.1865 Gracehill
Elizabeth 1.11.1867 Leitrim
Adam 15.7.1870 Ballycregagh
Hugh Reynolds 20.7.1876 Ballycregagh
William John 26.8.1878 Ballycregagh
David Alexander 19.5.1882 Ballycregagh
Joseph 17.9.1884 Ballycregagh
I noticed a marriage for Adam McFadden to Mary Hume on 20.4.1860 at Roseyards Presbyterian. He was living in Knockanavary at that time.
Stranocum House is in Stranocum townland. In Griffiths the occupant was William F. Hutchinson. One Reynolds property was a mile or so away in Ballycregagh Lower. Drumnafivey is the next townland along to Ballycregagh Lower. There was a different Reynolds household there on plots 4 & 5. (I’d expect the families were related).
Probably worth clarifying there are 3 townlands with the name Ballycregagh in Antrim. Ballycregagh Lower & Upper are beside each other in Loughguile Parish. Then there is another Ballycregagh in Dunaghy parish, north of Ballymena.
You’ve got me a bit confused with some of the information. You say Edward’s oldest son was Archibald and he was not at home at the time of the 1851 census. But Edward didn’t get married till 1862, so surely he wouldn’t have a son in 1851? Did you mean David’s oldest son was Archibald?
I couldn’t find the 1851 census record in either the nli site of or Mastersons book. So can’t comment on it. Where did you find that?
I think you will probably struggle to find David McMullan’s parents. His death indicates he was born c 1807. Apart from the agricultural census you have already found, there are few records to consult. None of the churches in that area has any records for the period you need. And labourers generally couldn’t afford a gravestone. How do you know the David in Seacon Lower is Edward’s father?
You mention that David’s wife Mary died in 1868 too. But you also say that her name was Elizabeth Through, according to Edward’s death certificate? I am a bit confused about that.
The Valuation revision records show the Seacon Lower farm in Susan’s name till 1873 after which it’s a John Blakely. There’s a death for a Susan McMullan in 1869 aged 50. I wonder if that’s her?
Elwyn:
Thank you for your reply. Sorry for the confusion. It is difficult to keep generations separate at times.
Archibald (Arcabald) is the son of David, not Edward. I found him in the 1851 Census in Ballycreagh. He was age 21.
David's wife was Elizabeth Through. The NYCity death certificates confirm this. Elizabeth died a few months after David. She was in Ballycreagh at that time. l do not know absolutely if the David who died in Seacon Lower is this Elizabeth's husband. I determined this by process of elimination (how many David's died around his approximate age, the time of his entry in Griffith's Valuation, etc.). I checked Susan's death certificate at Groni and made a copy. She was married at the time of her death. It is difficult to decipher her then residence (something Hill)(she had had Dyspepsia for 4 years). I suspect that she is a daughter in law, although I cannot decipher the name of the person who was present at her death, i.e., if it was her husband, etc. Or perhaps a niece. I do not know how to load that certificate onto this website, if that is possible. Alternatively, I could e-mail it to you, if I had your email address.
Thank you again for taking the time to assist me on my quest on this line also. I'm currently awaiting my Big Y results. Maybe I can backdoor my way into who David's father and mother were, when my line of McMullan's left Scotland to return to the ancestral territory of Ulster, etc. I do know that I'm in the same direct bloodline as the current MacMillan Clan Chief and that his family was from Knapdale and Kintyre. We are not that very far apart in the bloodline, but I can't make the connection yet. George MacMillan did tell me that there is an Archibald in nearly every generaton of his tree.
donmaccal,
I see the McMullan family you found in the 1851 census:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1851/Antrim/Killcoughy/Dunaghy/Ballycreagh/21/
I mentioned previously that there’s Ballycregagh Upper & Lower in Loughguile and Ballycregagh in Dunaghy parish. You have found a family in Ballycregagh in Dunaghy. That’s 15 miles from Ballycregagh Lower where Edward & Mary were living from around 1870 onwards. That’s not to say that the family in Ballycregagh in Dunaghy couldn’t be Edward’s parents, but they may not be. It could be another family altogether. (McMullan is a very common name in the area as you will have discovered). Do you have anything to link the two together?
The 1851 census for Ballycregagh Lower was destroyed in 1922 (which is why I was curious as to how you had apparently found it). Some fragments of the 1851 census have survived including a number of parishes in Co. Antrim, but not Loughguile parish.
I looked for the Dunaghy family in Griffiths Valuation (1861) but they had moved away by then. A Presbyterian in Dunaghy would probably have attended Clough Presbyterian church. It’s one of the oldest congregations in Ireland. Unfortunately they had a fire in about 1860 and all their early records were lost. They have nothing earlier than 1865 now.
Regarding Archibald McMullan in the 1851 census, there is a tree on Ancestry (Hazel Cramer family) that records him as emigrating to Boston, Mass in July 1852 and later marrying Elizabeth Smith in Wentworth Ontario in 1859. If that’s accurate then the Archibald marriages you found in Co. Antrim must be for other people.
You mention that David McMullan’s wife was Elizabeth Through (or similar). That’s not a surname I have ever come across. There isn’t anyone of that name anywhere in Ireland in the 1901 census. There were just 2 births to someone named Through - one in Belfast in 1886 and the other in Co Down, since records began. No-one named Through has ever died in Ireland since records began in 1864. I found one in England and none in Scotland. So it does exist as a name but it’s clearly very rare, and possibly a corruption of some other name.
You say that Elizabeth died a few months after David. However her death certificate says she was still married when she died. So I don’t think the Seacon David can be her husband. I think you should be looking for a David who died after December 1868. I searched and found what I am sure is the correct death on 5.11.1878 at Ballycregagh, aged 87. Informant was Mary McMullan (presumably his daughter in law). Take the age with a pinch of salt. Ages then were usually guesstimates and could be out by anything up to 10 years for someone of that approximate age.
If you would like me to look at Susan’s death certificate with the indecipherable address, e-mail it to me at: ahoghill@irelandxo.com
Regarding your ancestors likely coming to Antrim from Argyll, that is almost certainly correct. It is well documented that many Scots came over to that part of Ireland in the late 1500s and early 1600s. Just recently I read an item dated 1654 about movement across to Ireland: “Today in the Irish language, which is in use over this whole area, it is called Kintyre, that is Head of Land. It is inhabited by the family of Mac-Conell, which has lordship here but at the pleasure of the Earl of Argyll; they go off regularly to Ireland for booty in their light ships, and have occupied the small provinces called Glens and An Rata.” (An Rata is the Route, which as you may know is the name of the area around Ballymoney up to the coast at Dunserverick.). My source was “Antrim & Argyll Some aspects of the connections” page 99. Edited by Wm Roulston. The short crossing between Kintyre and Antrim unified the peoples on both side of it, rather than separated them, because at a time when overland travel was slow and dangerous, the sea was their freeway.
During the time of the Plantation of Ulster there was little difference between the Gaelic of many Scottish settlers and the Irish of the natives. The Irish of Antrim shared many features with Scottish Gaelic, and the Gaelic of Kintyre and Argyll was very similar to Antrim Irish. Robert MacAdam wrote in 1873:
Even yet the Glensmen of Antrim go regularly to Highland fairs, and communicate without the slightest difficulty with the Highlanders. Having myself conversed with both Glensmen and Arranmen, I can testify to the absolute identity of their speech (Ó Baoill 2000: 122).
But there are no records of who came when, and so other than DNA connections, tracing back to Scotland is not really feasible, save in the odd situation where someone was very wealthy or notorious.
Elwyn:
Did you get an email from me to your email address that you gave me? I've been having problems sending emails with attachments. Thank you.
Donmaccal,
No I did not receive an e-mail from you. You might want to try again.
Elwyn:
Hi! Don McMillan here in cold and snowy Virginia, and it is the season to get back into dedicated amounts of time since I'm shut in based on the weather. I hope you are fine, Covid, etc. All's good here.
I made a copy of a reply from you on my Johnston line, probably last year, but I do not have the date on my copy (stupid me!). You mentioned that you found a Will for an Andrew Gillespie Johnston and about a dozen more wills/probate files at PRONI's website for Johnstons in Ballymarrick/Ballynagarrick. I've used that site for the Will Calendars. It is not easy to narrow down areas to look into such as Drumbo/Ballynagarrick, etc. All I seem to be able to do is to search by the person's name. Is there a short cut that would allow me to jump into a townland, parish, etc.? If so, please share that info with me, or tell me how you determined this other than by going name by name through all of the Johnstons. Thanks as always.
P.S. I hope to be in Ireland this coming June and be up in Antrim/Down and PRONI, PHSI, etc., sites too doing more research.
Don
Hi Elwyn! I promise that this the last message posting of today! This relates to the McMullans and McFaddens in County Antrim. Since we last communicated on this, I have gotten additional information about the McMullans, and McFaddens.
1. David McMullan's wife's (Elizabeth) maiden name:
We previously discussed the lack of "Through(s)" in Ireland. So, I went fishing for an alternate spelling and used "Threw" and "Trew". I think I made signficant headway. I found "Threws" AND "Frews" in Rosedermot and Craigs Townlands in Antrim. There were two entries for a John Threw in Rosedermot Townland in Dunaghy Parish in the 1851 Census, as well as of 1862 in Griffith's Valuation.! One appears to be the father of the other John. I also found 2 Robert Frews and a John Frew in the 1851 Census for Craigs Townland. The 2 Roberts appear to be father and son also. They are also listed in Griffith's Valuation.
Siginificantly, I found an Old Age Pension investigation document stemming from a Mary Ann Trew pension application. There was a Mary Ann Threw living in John Threw's household in the 1851 Census. Importantly, the examiner checked the 1841 Census and found nothing to confirm Mary Ann's age/date of birth. But the examiner also wrote in connection with the 1851 Census the following: "Mary Ann Frew OR Trew." The district was listed as Ballymena. It appears that the examiner recognized two potential alternate spellings of "Frew". Thus, my conclusion is that David's wife Elizabeth was a Frew. Her age matches up with the John Trew and Robert Frew in the 1851 Census. Would you agree with my analysis and conclusion? If so, I wonder if there are other documents available relaitng to the Frew/Trew families in Rosedermot and/or Craigs Townlands.
2. Daniel McFadden's wife's family:
In the Belfast Newsletter in 1832 I found a wedding announcment for Daniel McFadden of Mosside (Daniel's daughter, Mary, married Edward McMullan at Mosside Presbyterian Church in 1862, although her address was given as "Drumafivey"). Drumafivey is on the south side of a large bend in the River Bush across from Stranocum and Ballyrobin and Livery, as well as Mosside, where I found a Daniel living in various years in the mid 1800's.
Daniel married a Nancy Gailey at Culleybackey Presbyterian Meeting House (now Cunningham's Memorial Presbyterin Church). She was the daughter of Adam Gailey and Elizabeth (Agnes?) McClurg of Culleybackey . There is a gravestone in the Culleybackey Reformed Presbyterian Cemetery which reads: "Erected in memory of Agness wife to Adam Gailey of Culleybackey who departed this life the 11th of January, 1825 aged 42 years. Also her son William Gailey who departed this life the 21st June 1826 aged 22 years." This certainly appears to be the same Gailey family in both references. A side note: Nancy had a brother named "Adam" and he appears to have emigrated to Flamboro Township, Ontario, Canada, the same township that Archibald McMullan ended up in per the Hazel Cramer tree on Ancestry per one of your prior notes to me. Thus, what other records might exist concerning the Gailey and McClurg families?
As to the McFaddens, they seem to have worshipped and been buried at Corncullagh/Dervock/Derrykeighan Presbyterian Church. The graveyard is teeming with McFaddens, particularly a Moses McFadden. I found a will for him at PRONI. In it he directs that he buried at the Dervock/Derrykeighan Cemetery in the McFadden family plot and a gravestone erected for him. I believe I have seen such in that graveyard. Whether Moses is Daniel's brother is not currently known by me. but their ages seem to coincide.
Many thanks, as always.
Don
P.S. Dorothy Archer is working on a graveyard book for Dervock.
Elwyn:
I apologize! I have one more message. You referred me to a Hazel Cramer tree on Ancestry in connection with Archibald McMullan/McMullen, but I cannot find that tree on Ancestry. Any suggestions?
Thank you.
Don,
The way to narrow the search on the PRONI wills website is to use the box marked “Full Abstract”. That allows you to search using any of the information in the abstract. So if you put “Drumbo” in, it will limit the search to files where someone had Drumbo as their address. Likewise if you put in “farmer” it will only look for farmers. If there are multiple townlands but they were all in Co Down, put “Down” in, and that should eliminate those from other counties. You can also use the year of death facility. If you know someone was alive in 1901, enter it and say 1970 as the latest year and it will eliminate all pre 1901 wills.
Be aware that only some years wills are actually on line. Where they are you can click on the icon at the end of the abstract line and read it. For the vast majority of post 1900 wills you need to go to PRONI to look them up, or get a researcher to do it for you. Post 1970 wills do not have even their probates on-line. That needs a search of the will calendars in person, in PRONI for them.
The lady compiling the graveyard books is Dorothy Arthur.
If going to PRONI, you need to make an appointment at the moment. You do that via the PRONI website. It’s free but they are insisting on appointments to limit numbers for Covid reasons. That may change of course, but it’s what’s being required at the moment. Bring your passport or photo id on your first day, to get your readers ticket at reception. (Just takes 2 minutes). PHS is only open two and a half days a week, and again an appointment is required. E-mail to their website is the easiest way. The person in charge is Valerie Adams, a former Director of PRONI. She’s very knowledgable.
I’ll come back to you shortly with replies to your other questions.
Don.
I have no difficulty finding Hazel Cramer’s tree again. Enter Archibald McMullan b 1834 Ireland, marriage 1859 Canada, and spouse Elizabeth Smith in the search boxes and that brings it up, along with 20 other trees many of which list Elizabeth. You might want to contact the tree owner to ask them the source of their information.
I think that an underlying problem is that there were quite a few people named Archibald McMullen in that part of Ireland at that time and it’s easy to get the families mixed up. I can’t vouch for the accuracy of any of the Ancestry trees as I haven’t researched any myself but opinions seem to vary as to exactly who married who in this family. So some may be wrong. (My general experience of Ancestry trees is that many are poorly researched and very unrelaibale. Primary research is essential to be sure they are reliable. And the sources need to be recorded, which most of the trees I see don’t do).
I can’t find the 1862 McMullan/McFadden marriage you mention.
The level of detail you are looking for now is really outside the range we can provide on IRO. Our role is broadly to provide pointers to where you might find additional information. For really detailed research you probably need to either come to PRONI yourself or employ a professional researcher. Researchers in the Ulster area: http://sgni.net
Good luck anyway, and I remain happy to answer any straightforward questions you may have.