Limerick: Nicholas St. Widows' Alms Houses and "7 High Street" address

Hi Johnathan,
you ask........
I have a few questions about widows' almshouses on Nicholas Street, King's Island, Limerick.
They were OFF Nicholas street.
The Story of the Widows Alms Houses off Nicholas Street • History (limerickslife.com)
You say........... 
In another column, there was a death attendant listed, maybe "James Wallase" , with an address of 7 High Street.  
I would have to see this so I would need the name of the person who passed on.
Usually the name of the person who was present at a death would have their home address. In the case of an attendant this would be the workhouse or hospital address.
I would need to see the record.  

In 1901 there are 476 people listed in King's Island. Names would help.  It depends on the years you are looking at.
Margot

Hello Margot, Thank you for the reply and the linked article, very informative.

I will link the two records I'm looking at.

The first is Mary Sheehan who died in 1937 at 65 years old at an alms house off Nicholas St . with James Wallase attending:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

The second is Mary Sheehan who died in 1951 at  age 82 at 14 Athunkard St. with Catherine Wallace attending:  

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

From your explanation and looking at more death records I understand now that the attendant's address may or may not be the same as the decedent's address.    

To me it is interesting that in these two cases, separated by 14 years , the attendants carry the same last name and I wonder if that is just coincidence.   Since the two death locations are very close together on King's Island, it makes me wonder if they are doctors or care attendants related to each other.

I believe one of these Mary Sheehans must be my great grandmother and I'm working on putting together an understanding of her family.  

Finally, in the first record, the person writing the record wrote in the first column for each decedent "Limerick, CS" while in the second record, the person wrote "Limerick, CB" .   Do you have any idea what "CS" and "CB" might mean?

Thank you and I'm attentive to any insights you may have,

Jonathan

Jon,

I think that the 1951 record is better for your relation..it shows she was 84, not 82...the math works better for her being 22 years at marriage in 1890 than the 1937 record. Whomever Catherine Wallace was, they were living at the same address according to the record. I don't know what CB or CS mean, but it must be some designation of the district in Limerick city as you see Limerick CB 1 at the top and bottom of the page. Keep in mind that during the 19th century, people did not keep track of their birth years too closely, so many times their self-reported ages in census and death records were estimates. One example is the 1901 and 1911 census records you posted on your other question have two ages for Mary that don't equate to adding 10 years.

Have you found James' death record? That might give you a clue to their address. Did Joseph emigrate like Bridget?

Regards,

Hello Carolyn,

That's a good insight about which death record is best for Mary.

About Joseph, I don't know if he emigrated, I have just learned of some genealogy resources available at a local library and I'm going to check out those resources soon.

I do have a death record for a James Sheahan, son of James Sheahan:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

Whose death year of 1900 at 7 years old corresponds exactly with a birth year of 1893.  Questions about this death record are the spelling "Sheahan" rather than "Sheehan", but I can imagine that these two spellings could have been used for the same person in the records.

The other question about the death record is the address of "Kenwick" or "Kerwick" Lane.  I notice that the death is registered in "Limerick Rural" and took place at the Limerick Workhouse.  But the record says "James Sheahan of Ke(r/n)wick Lane" which to me means his family address, not any street near the Workinghouse.  Although the family could have resided on a Kerwick/Kenwick before 1901. The Fish Lane address comes directly from the 1901 census.

I also have a 1902 Limerick Rural Workinghouse death record for a Mary Sheahan of Fish Lane, son of James Sheahan, to me this is a match with Mary Sheehan born in 1901 because at the time of the 1901 census, my target family was the only Sheehan or Sheahan living on Fish Lane.   Here is her death record: 

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

Therefore, do you think these are matches?    Do you know of any "Kerwick Lane" or "Kenwick Lane"? I'm currently searching for this lane.

I would like to ask you something else Carolyn:  can you confirm that 1903 St. Mary's parish  *baptism* records are not available online anywhere, either pay site or free site?  I realized that baptismal records for that parish could clear up alot of questions, and I don't believe they are available anywhere, not even on rootsireland.ie, and I know they are not availablle on the registers.nli.ie microfilm site.

Thank you very much for your continued assistance,

Jon

Hi Jon,

I'll try to cover all the topics in this reply.....first off, don't worry about the Sheehan/Sheahan surname variation, that is not uncommon, especially given the illiteracy rates at the time. The place where I found there are no parish baptism records for St. Mary's is at www.johngrenham.com - it shows they only go up to 1900, whether online or via private paid research. I don't know about the Kerwick/Kenwick vs Fish Lane death records other than both children died in the Limerick workhouse which probably functioned as a hospital in those years. While these death records could be James' children, and they moved to a different street, it could also be two different families with similar names.

One interesting thing when comparing the 1901 census to the 1911 census is that in 1901, James "cannot read"; but in the 1911 census, he can "read and write". These facts lead me to think that they are two different families because I'm not sure if back then, a person would make the effort in his adult years to become literate....especially if his occupation did not require it. Just speculation!

Try this website to see Limerick City street names: limerickcit.ie 

Finally, a question...is Bridget's civil birth record not sufficient for you to apply for Irish citizenship?

Regards,

 

Hi Carolyn,

I've emailed St. Mary's Catholic Church directly to ask whether or not they have retained baptism records for 1903.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

About whether the Sheehans in the 1901 census are the same family as in the 1911 census, they both have Joseph as a child, and his mathematics make sense.  And of course, the 1911 census has Bridget.  I've already done a 1901 census search for all residents of Fish Lane, my target family is the only Sheehan or Sheahan there, no others.  (I'm talking about the house enumeration page, etc, not the family return page.) I still have some research to do on the censuses for Creagh Lane and Fish Lane on King's Island, both the 1901 and the 1911 census.

What drove me to this family in the first place is that my grandmother has the exact same birthday as the Bridget Sheehan in question:   12 February, 1903.  To find an exact birthday match seems rare to me.  Therefore I am convinced that my grandmother, born in Limerick to James Sheehan and Mary Lynch on February 12, 1903 (as my family knows from personal, first-hand experience with her)  is the same person as Bridget Sheehan born in Limerick to James Sheehan and Mary Lynch on February 12, 1903 as noted in the civil records.

Is the civil record for Bridget Sheehan sufficient to prove that she is my grandmother?   That depends on the standards of the government officials who regulate the Foreign Birth Register.  Because my grandmother, in all of her official dealings here in the United States, used the name "Mary Bridget Sheehan", not "Bridget Sheehan".

As for me, I like to believe that my grandmother adopted the first name Mary either out of respect for her older sister Mary who died just before "Bridget" was born, or maybe my great grandmother Mary Lynch Sheehan addressed my grandmother as "Mary" for one reason or another.   But you see, this is all speculation on my part.

What *might* clear up the matter is a *baptismal* parish record of1903 showing the baptism of a Mary Bridget Sheehan to parents James and Mary Lynch.  And that is why I've written directly to that parish church secretary to learn whether or not they still have baptismal records from 1903.

That's where I am at the moment.  I'll be visiting a local library later this week, they promote having genealogical resources available for Ireland.  I'm also finding some Sheehans on King's Island in the Griffith's Valuation thanks to the suggestion of Margot (at the top of this thread).

Eventually, if I cannot find a record showing how Bridget Sheehan became Mary Bridget Sheehan, I'll apply for Irish citizenship using the birth record for the Bridget Sheehan born on the same day that my grandmother was born.   But of course I prefer to have more, better evidence!

I received your reference limerickcit.ie , I'll be looking at it, thank you.   

I'll also be posting here and soon a comment about the literacy of James Sheehan in the 1911 census.

And thank you again for your continued interest in my quest,

Jon

 

Hello Carolyn, as a P.S.  (and please see my response to you in the post immideately above this one)

Why I believe the James Sheehan 1901 census is the same family as in the James Sheehan 1911 census:

First, I searched the 1901 census for James Sheehan as head of household, County Limerick, with no other information added to the search criteria. The result showed that there was only one James Sheehan with a wife named Mary, and that result was on Fish Lane on King's Island.

Then, I did the same search for the 1911 census.  This time again there was only one James Sheehan in all of County Limerick who had a wife named Mary.  They lived on Creagh Lane, King's Island.

Now, on a map of King's Island for those years, we can see that Fish Lane and Creagh Lane are only several hundred feet apart in distance.

Then I went back to the 1901 census and searched with no name at all, only Limerick County and the word "Fish" in the Townland box.  It showed me all residents of Fish Lane on King's Island.   There was James Sheehan with wife Mary, but no other Sheehans or Sheahans.

Then I searched the 1901 census again with no names at all, only the word  "Creagh" in the Township box, there were no Sheehans/Sheahans there at all.

Then I searched the 1911 census with no names, only County Limerick and the word "Fish" in the Township box, it returned all residents of Fish Lane, King's Island, there were no Sheehans or Sheahans at all on Fish Lane in 1911.

Then I searched the 1911 census with no names, only County Limerick and the word "Creagh" in the Township box, there was a James Sheehan there with wife Mary, but no other Sheehans or Sheahans.

That is to say, that for all of Limerick County in both 1901 and 1911, there were only two appearances of a James Sheehan/Sheahan with a wife Mary:   1 on Fish Lane, King's Island in 1901, and 1 on Creagh Lane, King's Island in 1911.

Each of these had a child Joseph whose math makes sense between censuses.   James' math makes sense too between censuses.    Mary's math, as you have noted, is off a few years.

That's why I believe that these two censuses are showing the same family.

Your thoughts?

Jon

Jon.

You have certainly done your due diligence with those census records! I cannot think of another way to piece it together. I found a death record in 1915 for the James on Creagh Lane that is attached. He was 50 at death as well as 50 in the 1911 census....I would not let that stump you as ages in both sets of records were not always accurate.

You might consider looking for Bridget's emigration records post 1915. 

 

Hi again Carolyn:

You wrote "While these death records could be James' children, and they moved to a different street, it could also be two different families with similar names."

Consider these two records, first, a 1901 birth record for Mary Sheehan to James and Mary Lynch, then, a death record for Mary Sheahan of "Fish Lane", son of James Sheahan.

Remembering that at the 1901 Census, there was only one James Sheehan with a wife named Mary in all of County Limerick, and their address was Fish Lane, Limerick Urban 2 (Which is King's Island).

Birth record of Mary Sheehan 1901 to James Sheehan and Mary Lynch, Sandmall (King's Island):

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

Death record of Mary Sheahan 1902, Limerick Workhouse death, "Mary Sheahan of Fish Lane", and "son of James Sheahan":

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

In the entire county of Limerick, the 1901 census shows only one James Sheehan on King's Island.  He lived on Fish Lane (with his wife, Mary) .

That's why I think this birth record and this death record refer to the same human being.

Jon

 

Carolyn I am referring to your post about the 1915 death record for James Sheehan.  I found no way to reply to your post.  Under your post, there were only "edit" and "delete" buttons.

So I had to copy your entire post  and paste it here so that you would know what I'm replying to.

And your find of James Sheehan's 1915 death record is excellent.  It shows his death on Creagh Lane in Limerick Urban 1 on King's Island and Mary Sheehan attending.  Thank you so much for this find!

And I apologize greatly to the moderators for not knowing how to reply to a particular post in any given thread and for not really knowing how to manage the technical aspects of posting on this website.  I'm just trying to use my own brand of "common sense" but still it is not very obvious to me how to negotiate all of the options.

Jon

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• Monday 4th Sep 2023, 10:56PM

• Attached Files

  James Sheehan death, 1915.pdf (211.3 KB)

  Jon.

  You have certainly done your due diligence with those census records! I cannot think of another way to piece it together. I found a death record in 1915 for the James on Creagh Lane that is attached. He was 50 at death as well as 50 in the 1911 census....I would not let that stump you as ages in both sets of records were not always accurate.

  You might consider looking for Bridget's emigration records post 1915. 

Carolyn:

"You might consider looking for Bridget's emigration records post 1915. "

For emigration/immigration records, I have only familysearch.org.

The indexes are not much help (as far as I can see).  The only records of value are the ships' passenger lists, and only when they show clearly the information about the birthplace of the traveller and the identity of the person who paid for the voyage and the identity of the person in the United States waiting to meet the traveller.  I suspect Bridget emigrated from Ireland in the mid-1920s.  The only thing I know with certainty is that her first child was born in September of 1929.  So she must have emigrated sometime between the 1911 census and1929 at the latest.

I've written to the local Catholic parish/church in Boston where I suspect she was married, to ask about their marriage record archives for 1928 - 1929, and to the city of Boston as well about a marriage record.

I hope to hear back from the church this week, and about the City of Boston, I paid them for the service of producing the marriage record, so I'm sure I will hear from them, one way or another, within two weeks.

Time will tell!

Jon

 

Jon,

You can search the Ellis Island immigration records for free - www.statueofliberty.org ;

Good Luck!

Jon,

Delete the " " before clicking link....not sure why that gets added when typing the address!

Jon,

Looking on Ancestry, I found her naturalization record...there are a number of Ancestry trees for her. 

She emigrated at 17 years old in 1920 on the ship Celtic.

On the Celtic ship's manifest that is available on the Ellis Island site, it says that her "person in the old country" was her aunt Mrs. Goggins, and the person in the US is her cousin Mary E. Fitzgerald. It also says that her brother paid for her passage, so Joseph was still alive! Since he wasn't the "person in the old country", he was maybe in the US too. 

 

Carolyn, thank you for these finds!

I also had some good luck yesterday at the library.

Now I have proof positive that Bridget emigrated as "Bridget Sheehan"  and not as Mary or Mary Bridget.  I also have proof that she then started using the name Mary on her legal documents here in the USA.   Such as on her 1944 naturalization petition.  She applies as Mary, but on the question about stating the exact name under which she immigrated to the USA, she states "Bridget Sheehan".     As you said, on the Celtic on 20 August 1920.

I found also Michael J. Sheehan's 1923 marriage record in Boston, Massachusetts.   

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BN-G9PX-3?i=265&cc=1…

I know it is my great uncle because in one of my grandmother's obituaries, it says that she was predeceased by her brother Joseph Sheehan, and in another of her obituaries, it says she was predeceased by her brother Michael J. Sheehan.   Her obituaries also name her three nieces which are the same first names as Michael Joseph Sheehan's three children  (I found them on census records and also I found two of their own obituaries.

In another wonderful moment I heard back from the staff at St. Mary's parish on King's Island, and they certainly have 1903 baptism records, and they found my grandmother baptised on February 13, 1903 as Bridget, son of James and Mary Lynch of Fish Lane.  You might remember the Fish Lane address from the 1901 census.

I am now waiting for response from the church staff to learn whether I can prepay shipping and any other costs to get a certified copy of that baptismal record.

But as you can imagine I am thrilled with these results, and grateful for your assistance , thank you so much!

I am curious about Mary E. Fitzerald in Boston and the Goggins family on Aherne's Row in Limerick.  A 1920 census shows Mary in Boston, already widowed, with 2 children.   The census was taken in January and Bridget arrived in August but I'm sure I found the correct Mary Fitzgerald in the census:   "20 Ballantine" in Roxbury turns out to be "20 Valentine" in Roxbury, and Mary Fitzgerald is certainly there, and that address is onlyt 2 miles from where my grandfather lived.  In Michael's marriage record, you can see that his bride Josephine lived at 29 Valentine in Roxbury.    Very exciting to imagine these stories of how they all may have met their spouses.

 

Jon