LESSLIE/LESLIE & SHEERER

Susan,

If the Rev James Leslie (b c 1690) was a Minister in Ireland, then he will have been “mainstream” Presbyterian, rather than Covenanter, because the first Covenanter (or Reformed Presbyterian, as they are also known) Minister in Ireland was the Rev. William Martin who was ordained in 1757. Prior to that the occasional itinerant Covenanter Minister visited Ireland from Scotland but otherwise Covenanters usually attended the mainstream Presbyterian church.

The Presbyterian Historical Society has a record of each Minister’s career, from the outset of Presbyterianism in Ireland in the 1640s onwards. It’s known as “Fasti”. If you contact them they should be able to give you a little information about the Rev James Leslie. It usually covers ordination and places he served as well as a little family information. It should also tell you where he took his degree.

http://www.presbyterianhistoryireland.com

It was not possible for a Presbyterian Minister to obtain a theological degree in Ireland till the 1800s, so the Rev Leslie will have studied in Scotland at either Glasgow, Edinburgh, St Andrews or Aberdeen Universities. They keep records of their students and may also have a little information on him. Give them the approximate dates of his attendance. He many not have necessarily studied theology. Quite a few Ministers in those days qualified with Arts degrees. And not all took their degrees. (Matriculation involved an additional fee which not all were able to pay). Some left having completed the course but without matriculating. However this was not seen as a drawback to being ordained or pursuing other careers.

You say that Rev Leslie married Margaret Sheerer. Judging by the 1901 census, the vast majority of Shearer/Sheerers in Ireland were Presbyterian or Church of Ireland, and lived in Counties Antrim & Down. So her background is likely to be Scottish the same as her husband’s. In Ireland today she’d be known as Ulster-Scots, in North America as Scotch-Irish. Her ancestors will have settled in Ireland some time in the 1600s.

There are no Presbyterian records for Coleraine for the period you are interested in and so you are unlikely to find any record of their marriage or of the baptism of their son in 1727.

I searched the PRONI e-catalogue (Public record office for Northern Ireland) to see if there is any mention of the Rev James Les(s)lie, but did not find any.

According to the records of the Irish Society (the landlord for Coleraine), in 1738, a George Leslie rented quite a few properties in the town (which he will have sublet to others).  He was the only Leslie in the town at that period. I have no way of saying whether he was connected to your family though.

Susan,

Coleraine probably means the town rather than the parish.  People tended to use their town or, in a rural area, townland as their place of origin. Sometimes parishes were used, especially in religious records where it was a relevant piece of information, but in my experience giving your parish was less common. It can also depend on who you were giving the information to. If to someone with a knowledge of the area you would use your townland (or town name if you lived in a town) but if it was someone unfamiliar with Ireland, you would often just give the nearest big town.

You are interested in information on Coleraine in the 1700s. There isn’t a huge amount of material but Coleraine Library has a genealogical section and should have some.  You could e-mail the library in advance and ask for suggestions:

https://www.librariesni.org.uk/Libraries/Pages/Coleraine-Library.aspx

Andrew Kane’s book “The Town Book of Coleraine” does contain maps and other detail on the town’s residents in the 1700s and 1800s. (It was the source of my information on the only Leslie listed there in 1738). There should be a copy in the library.  Andrew also does some work for the UHF and if he is around you could probably get a copy directly from him when you are there. You might also ask him for suggestions on a guide or other places to look in Coleraine.

Coleraine is not a large town and you could walk round the area within the old walls (which is all that existed in the 1700s) in an hour. You can easily get there from Belfast by train and by bus. Trains and buses both leave from Great Victoria St station.

Susan,

You ask about “aldermen and representatives in Parliament”. Aldermen are usually the leading people in a town or community and are elected or appointed to sit on the local council, taking decisions about local affairs. In some countries they are called councillors. Representatives in Parliament means Members of Parliament (MPs we call them). So it sounds as though in 1912 the Superintendent Registrar knew of Leslies who had sat on the local council and also had been MPs for the area.   Obviously he didn’t say exactly when.

Kilcanny is probably Kilcranny. There were just 3 households there in 1911, so presumably one of those families is the one the Registrar had in mind:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Bannbrook/Killcranny/

All 3 families are Presbyterian with the Andersons being Reformed Presbyterian (ie Covenanter).  You would obviously need to trace these 3 families back a bit to see if any married a Leslie.

Regarding Scots settling in Ireland, something like at least 100,000 Scots settled in Ireland in the 1600s. There was a huge influx in the 1500s and early 1600s around north east Co Antrim from the McDonald lands in Scotland (Islay, Jura, Colonsay, Gigha and Kintyre, all of which are immediately to the north of that part of Ireland). In addition others came as part of the Hamilton & Montgomery settlement around 1610. Others remained after the 10,000 strong Scots army in Carrickfergus was disbanded in the 1640s. Famine in the 1690s also led to a huge influx. Plus there were fleeing Covenanters too.  Somewhere between 10 and 20% of the entire Scottish population settled in Ireland at that time.  So much so that the vast majority of the population in Co Antrim are of Scottish origins, and there’s a huge number in Co Londonderry too. I think sometimes people fail to understand how close the 2 places are to each other. At the closest point in Ireland (Torr Head) Scotland is only 11 miles away. So a natural place for folk leaving Scotland to move to.

By the early 1700s the Scots were dissatisfied with life in Ireland and started to move on again. Migration in significant numbers started in 1718. You can read a bit about emigration from around Coleraine in this link:

https://www.ancestryireland.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/The_1718_Migration.pdf

Your conclusion that your family may not have lived in Ulster very long is likely to be correct. Possibly just 30 or 40 years. Conceivably less.

I bumped into Andrew Kane today in PRONI. The UHF have a group here this week and he is assisting. I mentioned your interest in Coleraine. He thinks he’ll probably be working with your group so you should seek him out. He has some suggestions on sources for information about Coleraine in the 1700s that might interest you.

I suspect that this is the Registrar who wrote the 1912 letter:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Coleraine/Adelaide_Avenue/589158/

Looks as though he was also the clerk to the local workhouse (a fairly prestigious position). He was probably Superintendent Registrar as well. The one you found in Longfield is a farmer and a JP. (A Justice of the Peace is a respected member of the community who has certain official functions. They can sit in judgment in Magistrates Courts and they can issue search warrant etc. It’s not a paid post but they get a honorarium. Unlikely for a farmer in Longfield to also be a Registrar in Coleraine, in my opinion.)

Susan,

Sadly, I won’t be around during your visit next month. I’ll be up in Lewis & Harris in the Western Isles for a week or so. So we won’t be able to meet up.  However I’ll put you in touch with Andrew and you can hopefully meet him. E-mail me on Ahoghill@irelandxo.com and I’ll give you his contact details.

To give you a flavour of the area where your ancestors lived, I have attached a photo of Scotland as seen from near the Giant’s Causeway (close to Coleraine). In the middle distance is Rathlin Island. Ownership of this was long disputed between Ireland and Scotland. In the end the matter was supposedly resolved by the fact that there are no snakes on Rathlin. Ireland has no snakes, whereas Scotland does. So therefore it was Irish. Straightforward enough.

Susan,

I assume this is the head Anderson that you refer to:

Anderson Henry O'Hara of The Baths Portstewart county Londonderry baths proprietor died 19 May 1933 Probate Londonderry 22 December to reverend James Renwick Wright reformed presbyterian minister and John McDowell builder. Effects £133 5s. 11d.

If so, the wording means “probate was granted to James Renwick Wright” etc etc, not that he inherited in the will.  So JRW & JMcD were just the executors.  You would need to get a copy of the will from PRONI to find out who the beneficiaries were. It’s possible that JRW was one but you can’t infer that from the abstract.

You ask which Reformed Presbyterian Church the Anderson family would have attended. I think it was Ballyclabber in Coleraine. That seems to be the nearest:

https://www.rpc.org/ballyclabber/

The RP Church has a historical section and should be able to give you a history of their past Ministers. Send an e-mail to the contact section on the website.

A copy of Ballyclabber’s baptism & marriage records is in PRONI. They start in 1862.

This looks to be JRW in the 1911 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Newry_South/Church_Street__part_of/256635/

And in 1901 with his parents and siblings:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Dunminning/Craigs/939879/

He died in 1964. Again, his will should be in PRONI:

Wright, James Renwick of Dunvaron 27 Charles Street Ballymoney county Antrim retired reformed presbyterian minister died 1 January 1964 Probate Belfast 18 March to Jeanie Rosa Marie Marguerite Holmes married woman. Effects £3838 8s.

The Newry Reporter of 9.8.1906 mentions JRW attending the inordination of a fellow Minister at Ballenon in Co Down, and says that JRW was Minister at Ballybay at that point. He appears to have moved to Ballyclabber in 1911, following the death of the previous incumbent. (Belfast Newsletter 4.3.1911).

JRW’s death was reported in the Belfast Telegraph 2.1.1964. It says he was brought up in Cullybackey and began his ministry with Creevagh congregation in Co. Monaghan. He was Minister at Ballyclabber for 44 years before retiring in 1956. He is survived by 2 sons, both in the ministry and a daughter. (I wouldn’t be surprised if the daughter was Jeanie Holmes mentioned in the probate abstract).

Susan,

For obituaries you would need to search the local newspapers. I have a subscription to the British Newspapers archive (which has a lot of Irish papers on it). There is also an Irish newspapers site and findmypast and Ancestry also have some Irish newspapers on their sites. They are all pay to view or subscription.

Here’s a definition of a Superintendent Registrar’s area:

https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/Ireland-civil-registration.html

So Mr Lecky had responsibility for records in the Coleraine Poor Law Union area. You can see all the townlands in that district by using this website:

https://thecore.com/seanruad/

Enter Londonderry as the county and Coleraine as the PLU and it will list all the townlands covered. There were 5 PLUs so he was responsible for a fifth of the county.

I have attached a copy of the 1964 obituary but the 1906 article is too large. It’s an entire column length and too much to download. However it’s all about the new Minster in Ballenon and his inauguration. Beyond telling us that Rev Wright was there and chaired the proceedings there's really nothing else about him personally. The archives are full of mentions of the Rev Wright (senior) but mostly it’s reports of meetings he attended or forthcoming religious events at which he was invited to speak. He travelled around a bit. I see one for him speaking to Airdrie RP church (in Scotland) in the Airdrie & Coatbridge Advertiser of 22.8.1931.

I found his son’s inauguration too, in Dromara, Co Down. I have attached it. Unfortunately I haven’t noted the newspaper or date and now can’t find it again.

His brother Hugh Wright of Winnipeg married Dorothy MacAulay 17 Landscape Terrace Belfast in Grosvenor Rd Belfast RP church. The bride wore a gown of ivory stain and had a tuile veil. The bridesmaids wore lilac taffeta and carried sweet pea to tone. Best man was his brother J. Renwick Wright. The guests were entertained afterwards at the Merrythought Café (Ulster Menu Company).  Source: Northern Whig 16th June 1938.

The Ballymena Weekly Telegraph for 28th May 1938 reported the death of Alexander Wright’s father. Copy attached. As I say there are dozens of brief references to Rev Wright in the papers.

The Linenhall Library in Belfast has some editions of the Ulster Genealogical & Historical Guild’s publications. I am not clear whether they have no 9. (I can see some numbered 40 + in their catalogue ). I would e-mail them and ask whether they have edition no 9:

https://lhlibapp.qub.ac.uk/search~S1

 

Susan,

Yes some people did move about a bit. Farmers didn’t. You don’t spend 30 years improving a farm and then move to a new one to start all over again if you can avoid it. However labourers and weavers moved all the time to follow available work. However labourers and weavers usually couldn’t afford a gravestone so they can be quite hard to trace.

Yes I know Dorothy Arthur well. We are both members of the North of Ireland Family History Society.  She was brought up in the Ballymoney area and has extensive knowledge of many families there.  She has published a number of books on graveyards in the Ballymoney area. You can order her books through this website:

https://www.booksireland.org.uk/author-editor/dorothy-arthur

Or you can contact her on this link:

https://ballymoneygraveyard.com/research/

If you have any problems contacting her, let me know. I have her private e-mail address (which I can’t give out without her permission obviously) but I could pass her a message. Coleraine Library should also have copies of her books in the Local History section.

There is or was a Reformed Presbyterian church in Ballymoney. I don’t think it’s still functioning. Here’s what the PRONI catalogue says:

“[There would appear to have been two meeting houses in the early 19th century – at Kilraughts and Dervock; Ballymoney meeting house was built in

1829]. PRONI hold:

Register of members by society with baptisms, marriages, deaths and removals including emigration, c.1835-44 (for Dervock and Ballymoney, but also records details for Ballymoney Society from 1804); register containing session reports, 1914-81, admissions,1914-75, with lists of members (the earliest ones recording details of deaths and emigration),1914-88; call and attestation of call to the Rev. John Lynd signed by office bearers and members, 1886; committee minutes, 1890-1956; session minutes, 1845- 66 and 1886-1931, with list of elders, 1891 and 1893 which include details of their death; stipend account book with names, 1858-1906 with a list of members for 1868 and 1877”.

PRONI hold a copy of the above records.  A personal visit there is required to view them.

The Reformed Presbyterian/Covenanter Church in Ireland doesn’t have any baptism or marriage records before the early 1800s (for the reasons I explained in my post of 6th Jan 2019) and they weren’t very good at keeping them for many years after that. Lots of missing records, or records never kept in the first place. And in general Presbyterians don’t keep burial records so nothing to be found there either.

Regarding burials it’s probably worth explaining that whilst there are some churches with their own exclusive graveyards, many were shared by anyone who lived in the general area. Many Presbyterian churches didn’t have graveyards and so they used the Church of Ireland or other graveyards. Many graveyards are shared by all denominations. And people weren’t always buried at the church they attended. Many had family plots some distance away (perhaps where ancestors had lived) and so were buried there. 

Regarding early probate records, the vast majority of pre 1858 probate files were lost when the Public Record Office in Dublin caught fire during the Irish civil war in 1922. A few wills survived the fire and there are duplicate copies of some in PRONI but in general 95% were lost. There are some index books which were kept elsewhere. You can check for any early wills on the PRONI names index.

https://apps.proni.gov.uk/ProniNames_IE/SearchPage.aspx

In most cases where there’s a record of a will, it says “no other record exists” meaning the actual file went up in flames, but you do get the odd one where a duplicate copy or a transcript has survived. (Some duplicates were kept in solicitors offices and eventually handed to PRONI when their usefulness had long gone).

As an example, the name search site has this: John Lesslie, Coleraine, probate granted 1702. “The original documents referred to in this index DO NOT exist. No further information, other than that recorded above, has survived”.

Search under Leslie too as that’s the more common spelling in Ireland.

 

Susan,

Glad to have been of help.

 

 

Peggy,

You face the same basic problem as Susan which is that there are almost no church records in Co Antrim for someone born in 1761, and very few other records of their life in Ireland up to 1785 when John Leslie left.

Regarding James being born in Coleraine, not Antrim, it’s worth commenting that Coleraine is very close to Antrim. The county border now is just outside the town. Coleraine is divided by the River Bann. Originally everything in the town west of the Bann was in Co. Londonderry (at that time called Co. Coleraine) and everything east in Co. Antrim.  In the early 1600s, for easier administration, it was decided to redraw the boundary so the whole town was in the one county.  The county was also renamed at the same time, changing from Co. Coleraine to Co. Londonderry.

So someone born just outside Coleraine could be born in Co Antrim, though they might give Coleraine as their home, especially in the USA where an individual townland in Ireland that no-one would have heard of was probably meaningless.

You ask how the Anderson & Sheriff families connect with the Leslies.  They may have all lived close to each other in Ireland. Anderson is a very common name here. There are 2381 of them in the 1901 census of Antrim & Londonderry. Sheriff is not so common though. In the 1901 census there’s just 3 families, and one of them was a shipyard worker from Scotland.

Part of the 1831 census for Co. Londonderry has survived and includes the parish of Coleraine. There were just 2 Leslie households in it (both Presbyterian). One lived in Meeting House Lane in the town:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Coleraine/Coleraine/Coleraine_Town_Meeting_House_La/133/

The other lived in Winnyhaw (more commonly Windy Hall). Windy Hall is on the southern outskirts of the town of Coleraine. Today it’s a residential area though in 1831 it would have been farmland.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Coleraine/Coleraine/Winnyhaw/6/

I mentioned Andrew Kane’s book on Coleraine, compiled from records held by the Honourable Irish Society. It mentions several Leslies and a Sherriff.  George Leslie is recorded in 1738 as holding 6 acres, 2 roods 37 perches of land (just over 6 and a half acres). The location isn’t given. He appears again under the list of town tenants 1738-58 as leasing a good slate house, two storeys with garrets. He appears to have let that to tenants named James Dodd and later John MacDougal).

Another entry records James Hutchison, Patrick Keith, Isaac Cochrane, John Smith & William Sherriff as tenants or occupants of “An old slate house, two storeys high with garrets.” Samuel Sherriff, Joseph Wilson & Samuel Paterson as holding a property in the town on a 3 lives lease (in this case the King’s first 3 sons) granted on 29.9.1774. (If you want an explanation of that I can do so).

 James Leslie is also listed again with a lease granted on 29.9.1774.

The book also details a property on Church St, Coleraine. “Perpetually renewable lease granted to John Smith & Samuel Sheriff and Lord Mark Kerr on 1st July 1774 at £23-5-2pa with associated acre 101. Now held by Joseph Wilson & Samuel Patterson, executors of the will of Lord Mark Kerr, and Mr Sheriff. This trust is currently the subject of a dispute which has delayed the granting of a new lease.”

The late Lord Mark Kerr was the husband of the Countess of Antrim. So his estate was the owner of this land. (At one time the McDonnells, Earls of Antrim, owned a quarter of the county, including most of the land in north Antrim).

Several Andersons and Sheriffs in the tithe applotment records for Coleraine of 1827. The tithes were a tax on land, so these were lists of people with land. Mainly farmers.  There are no Leslies so that indicates they didn’t have any land. So the ones in the 1831 census are perhaps tradesmen or labourers, or servants.

One Sheriff in Dundoan in the 1831 census (mistranscribed as Shurff):

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Coleraine/Coleraine/Dundovan/22/

If you are looking for some general background reading on Coleraine in the 1700s, you might find  “Coleraine in Georgian Times” by the Rev Mullin (publ 1977) interesting. You get general descriptions of life. For example: “ Arthur Young made a tour of Ireland in 1776. He took a special interest in emigration” Upon going over to Ireland I determined to omit no opportunities of discovering the cause and extent of this emigration. The spirit of emigrating in Ireland appeared to be confined to tow circumstances, the Presbyterian religion, and the linen manufacture. I heard of few emigrants except amongst the manufacturers of that persuasion. The Catholics never went, they seemed not only tied to the country but almost to the parish in which their ancestors lived.”

Or: “ A French émigré, Dr Latocnaye, visited Ireland in 1796 and spent three or four days with Mr Richardson of Somerset, who received him warmly. The Frenchman said that on Sundays the countrywomen of Coleraine resembled those of Scotland near Montrose. They dressed neatly and had a red cloak over their shoulders. Anyone who saw them would not have thought he was in Ireland.”

Most of that part of Ireland was very heavily settled by Scots and so was markedly different to other parts of Ireland. A Presbyterian Minister brought up in Aghadowey, Co Derry (near Coleraine) wrote this of his childhood in the 1820s: “Aghadowey had originally been settled by a Scotch immigration and I found that my new neighbours spoke as pure Scotch as a man might hear in any part of Ayrshire.”[1]

Describing his youth in Ballycahan, parish of Dunboe, again near Coleraine, a local farmer said: “Over a space of 15 to 20 miles from east to west, and about the same from north to south, Scottish surnames, a broad Scottish dialect and an almost universally diffused Presbyterianism indicated the title of the people to call themselves “Scotch”. Episcopalians were few and a Roman Catholic as rare as a black swan.”[2]

 

[1] Autobiography of Thomas Witherow 1824 – 1890 Page 25. Ballinascreen Historical Society 1990

[2] A Kennedy chronicle – Biography of Alexander Kennedy of Ballycahan 1818 – 1885 by Hugh Alexander Hezlett (Coleraine library)

I omitted the link to the tithes for the parish of Coleraine from the above post:

http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/derry/tithe-applotments/coleraine-pari…