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Joseph O'Neill son of Charles and Margaret O'Neill (McCrory) - baptised in Desertcreight in July 1856

Goos morning,

I am searching for the confirmed origin my ancestor, Joseph O'Neill, son of Charles (my direct ancestor) and Margaret (McCrory). Joseph is shown in the Desertcreight Parish Register as being born in July 22 1856, Sponsors John and Susan McCrory. His mother was born in Derryloran and married husband, Charles,  on October 5th, 1853 in Cookstown Parish Church (witnesses St John Quin of Ballymurphy and Thomas Muldoon of Drummad). Their first son John was born in Glasgow on 29th November 1854 and a third child, Britta was born in 1859 after they returned to Glasgow. Because of the location of the witnessess at Charles and Magaret's marriage, and the close proximity of a John O'Neill to them,  I reasonably speculate that the family lived in Trickvallen. As this location has been challenged by a genealogist I seek confirmation of my speculation.. 

Any help would be appreciated.

Alan O'Neill

sthlodge@sky.com

5 replies

Alan,

On the information available, searching for the right family in the right townland seems a bit of a needle in haystack. Did either Charles or Margaret die in Scotland? If so, their death certificates should give their parents names and the fathers’ occupations. They should also say whether those parents were alive or dead at that date. Knowing that information might help narrow the search a bit.

Did the family ever claim under the Poor Law in Glasgow? If so, the Scottish Poor Law files usually record where the family came from in Ireland together with any living relatives.  The Mitchell Library has the records for the Glasgow area and will do a search for a small fee.

https://www.glasgowfamilyhistory.org.uk/ExploreRecords/Pages/Poor-Law.a…

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Good morning Elwyn,

Thank you for your reply.

My direct ancestor, Charles, was born 1826/1828 to John O'Neill and Martha (McKeown). Martha died in Glasgow on October 31st 1871 aged 78 (witness Charles my direct ancestor). No recod found of John's death. Charles died in Glasgow on 12th November 1897, aged 69

Based on the information provided at Charles and Margaret's  Cookstown marriage record (witnesses St John Quin, Ballymurphy, and Thomas Muldoon, Drumad) I checked every Townland in Tyrone and this combination of names was only foumd in the vicinity of Trickvallen. Griffiths Valuation shows the close proximity of their lands.

I have one exact 700 marker DNA match with a person who has a family recorded history of a connection with Sir Phelim O'Neill (their ancestor purchased Roughan Castle over 100 years ago in the, probably mistaken, belief that he had owned it - he WAS captured there).

I also have a family name connection with Sir Phelim through witness St John Quin who was the husband of Britta O'Neill, sister to Lewis Gordon O'Neill and St John O'Neill their mother being Elizabeth (McGuckian) O'Neill from the adjoining Townland of Killygonlan.  I understand that witnesses were very often family members.The name Lewis Gordon is associated with Sir Pheliim's wife Lady Jane Gordon.

I believe the family would not have claimed Poor Law benefiit as they were reasonably well off - Charles was a Coal Dealer and is recorded in a Glasgow Gazette.

Regards,

Alan

 

 

sthlodge@sky.com

Alan,

Griffiths Valuation for 1859 has a Charles O’Neill with a farm of just under 3 acres (plot 15) in Trickvallen. In the Valuation Revision records his name is deleted in 1862 and replaced by John O’Neill. That doesn’t tie in perfectly with your family’s chronology as obviously they had returned to Glasgow by 1859, but Griffiths dates weren’t always totally reliable. The dates tend to be the date they learned of the event, rather than when it happened.

Have you traced John O’Neill of Trickvallen forward and ascertained what happened to him?

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Elwyn,

You will note that Charles O'Neill's plot 15 is surrounded by plots 14 a,b,c which was owned by John O'Neill (my presumed direct ancestor) who I presumed had subdived his plot for the benefit of Charles, probably being his son. The Tithe Applotment Book for Trickvallen also shows a Charles O'Neill who I speculate was John's father - in accordance with Irish naming patterns. There is a long chain of Johns and Charles being father and sons in our family, the eldest son being named after his grandfather.

My assumption that Trickvallen is the original Townland of my ancestors is based on Charles marriage to Martha in Cookstown on Oct 5th 1853 with witnesses St John Quin, (Plots 2, a and b, in Ballymurphy and Thpmas Muldoon in Plots 15, a and b in Drumad). These lands are all very close together so I think it highly likely that this assumption is correct. There are no other similar connections in the whole of Tyrone

I have to admit I am confused by the entries in the Valuation Revision Records. I do not have a death record of John but his wife, Martha (McKeown) was recorded as iving with her son Joseph in the 1871 Census for Glasgow. Possibly also in 1861 Census but record unclear. She died in Glasgow later in 1871. Joseph's marriage record in Glasgow in 1860 shows his father as being deceased.

If this John of Trickvallen is my ancestor (and I am convinced that he is but would appreciate your opinion)  I have traced his line through to the present day.

Alan

sthlodge@sky.com

Alan,

Until the arrival of the bicycle in rural Ireland (c 1860) most courting was done on foot. Though very fit and capable of walking huge distances, at the same time, farmers couldn’t afford to leave their farms for too long and so courting someone who lived miles away was very difficult. Most folk married someone who lived nearby.  The girl next door in many cases. In Co Fermanagh I heard a saying that in those times “you married someone who lived within an Asses bark of your home.” Perhaps an Asses bark might be heard for half or three quarters of a mile.  Not to be taken too literally obviously, but you'll get the general idea. 

So what you have done analyzing where the two names were found together is very sensible.  It’s what I’d have recommended and your results seem to make good sense. Whether they are definitely correct or not, I just can’t say.  But you knew that anyway.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

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