Back to Message Board

John Murray

Hi Guys

I am trying to trace back the ancestors of John Murray and his sister Catherine Murray. I do not have place or exact date of birthfor either. I know that Catherine was born about 1816 and she emigrated to NSW Australia aboard the Duchess of Northumberland leaving from Cork and arriving in Australia 27th Feb 1835. She later moved to Parramatta NSW where she married in 1841. There is no mention of parentage or place of birth on her marriage certificate and when she died in Parramatta 1889 there is only her fathers name of Murray and mother is unknown. John Murray is my husbands Great Grandfather, he was born about 1817 and on the UK census just states Ireland as place of birth. He was in the Commissariat from 1838 when he joined as a clerk ( I believe in the UK). I find him in London 1861 as a widowed Assistant Commissary General. I do not know who or where he had married. He had travelled with the Commissariat to South Africa, Ionian Islands and the Gold Coast where I know of his salary but no mention of when or where he was born. He marries again in 1867 to Mary Mandeville Todd in London. On this marriage certificate it says his father is Hugh Murray but that his father was deceased, I do not know if he died in UK or Ireland and do not know his occupation. John retired from the Commissariat in 1867 on a pension, John died in January 1874 in London leaving a young family. Tracing theirprogress through school records in London there is no mention of where their father was born. We have a family bible which starts with John & Mary Mandeville but they do not give their own birth details only those of their children and their descendants. I have been working on John for over 10 years and have enlisted the help of War researchers, Irish & Australian researchers but no one seems to be able to help. I am hoping that someone here can help.

Many thanks Lesley Murray

rubymurray123@…

6 replies

Lesley:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

Roots Ireland has two baptismal records which are leads for your search. However, depending on the religion of your Murrays, one of the records can be dropped since one was RC and the other Church of Ireland. Keep in mind that many churches do not have records back to 1816 and Murray is a very common surname found all over the country. ( I have Murrays from Co. Down on my maternal line).

I would consider autosomal DNA testing.

You may also want to add John's story to our XO Chronicles site.  https://www.irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/history-and-genealogy/ancestor-dat…

Questions?

Roger McDonnell

Name:John MurrayDate of Birth:
Date of Baptism:10-Jun-1818Address:Not RecordedParish/District:EDGEWORTHSTOWNGender:MaleCountyCo. Longford
Denomination:Roman Catholic
Father:Hugh MurrayMother:Elizabeth SheradanOccupation:Not Recorded
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:John Reynolds Sponsor 2 /
Informant 2:Mary Donegan 

Name:John MurrayDate of Birth:
Date of Baptism:29-Jan-1819Address:LisburnParish/District:BlarisGender:
CountyCo. Antrim
Denomination:Church Of Ireland
Father:Hugh Murray

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Hi Roger

Thank you for your quick responce. I had previously read some of the message boards for the Murrays and saw that John Murray was a common name. My  Murrays appear to be Roman Catholics and one of his sons (from second marriage) my husbands Grandfather, married in the Oratory in Edgbaston Birmingham.

Back in 2010 I came accross a posible Baptism for John Murray, it is the one you have suggested with parents Hugh Murray & Elizabeth Sheraden, I thought that I had found this too quickly but could I have been right ? I will pursue this line of enquiry thank you. I think sometimes when you are unsure another pair of 'eyes ' often help.

My brother in law did a DNA with Ancestry at xmas. It showed there was percentage of Irish DNA in his sample and gave possible surnames of cousins.

Thank you again for your help

 

Best wishes

Ruby

rubymurray123@…

Hi Roger

 

Looking back at my research I had dismissed the baptism of John Murray with parents Hugh Murray & Elizabeth Sheradan because I could not find a baptism for Catherine Murray with the same parents. 

Are you able to see a baptism for Catherine ?

 

Many thanks

Lesley Murray

rubymurray123@…

Lesley:

Sorry, no Catherine baptism with those parents.

Roger

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Hi Lesley, 

I was really interested to read your post about your husbands family. We have a connection as my mother's great grandfather is also the same Robert Murray who was married to Mary Mandeville Todd. Our direct ancestor is their son John Robert Murray and his son Robert Francis Murray (my grandfather).

I've been researching the Murray family tree with my daughter Evie and we would love to share information with you. We have got as far as Hugh Murray who was married to Elizabeth Sheridan and it is the RC contact.

We have just started with Ancestry.com and think we may have seen some of your contributions. It would be great to connect.

Kind regards,

Mark.

Mark B

Hi Mark, exciting to hear from you. Robert Francis Murray is my husband Pauls uncle. Pauls brother Robert John Murray spent his honeymoon with Robert and Ellen in Paignton. Paul remembers when he was small that Robert Francis had a dog called Ted.

I don't believe that Hughs wife was Elizabeth Sheridan, at one time I put is as that on Ancestry and other people have copied it even though I deleted it. I couldn't find a Catherine Murray (Johns sister) being baptised with Hugh and Elizabeth. Also Elizabeth does not appear as a family name which was the way families named their children. Paul also did a DNA test and he has only 1% Irish DNA so I suspect that only John and maybe Hugh were born in Ireland. Paul has a small tree on Ancestry(I couldn't be bothered to type it all out again) Murray family tree., all of his family is with mine on Smith Family tree. 

Pauls brother Robert has the family bible which starts with the names of John Murray and Mary Mandeville but not their details, it has all the details for their descendants.

We are in contact with Jonny Murray who is the grandson of Charles Joseph Murray Robert Francis' brother. He lives in Kefalonia, Greece. Paul and Roberts sister Christine met up with him a couple of months ago when she was on a cruise.

I am not sure that we will be able t go back further in the family tree due to lack of records available.

Best wishes Lesley Murray

 

rubymurray123@…

Reply

Reply
One image file up to 2 MB.