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John McCann 1820-1895

ArmaghSeagoe (Armagh)

John was my g-g-grandfather

His army service record indicates that he was born in Seagoe c. December 1820 and his trade was weaver. He served in the Royal Artillery as a gunner and driver from 1839 to 1860 including four years in Jamaica and 10 in Mauritius. He married Christina (or Christiana) Stewart in Leith in 1846. After discharge from the RA he lived in Woolwich for the rest of his life and is buried in Plumstead cemetery.

I know the chances of finding anything more about his history are slim. I can find no mention of parents or siblings. There are no surviving census records for Seagoe in 1821 or 1831 and he was born a long time before civil registration of births began. Even such church registers as I can find online don't go back as far as 1820. And looking for weavers or people called McCann in Seagoe carries a high 'needle in a haystack' factor. But maybe word of him has been passed down in family stories or some letters home have survived.

Phil Mackie

14 replies

Phil,

What denomination was John? I can see that his 1846 marriage was Church of Scotland (ie Presbyterian) but tradition was to marry in the bride’s church. Her husband may have been from a different denomination. Do you know what John was?

The only denomination in Seagoe with records of baptisms around 1820 is the Church of Ireland (ie Anglican). Their records start in 1672, though there are gaps, including one for 1822-1828. The Presbyterian records don’t start till 1839 and RC 1836.

There’s a copy of the Church of Ireland records in PRONI in Belfast. I am not sure if they are on-line anywhere. 

As you have commented tracing a weaver/labourer at that era is very difficult, especially as they often moved around to follow available work. I have no easy solutions for that.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Thanks Elwyn,

He must have been Catholic as I have baptismal records for two of his children at St. Peter the Apostle, Woolwich. Christina was baptised there in 1875; I'm guessing her parents were staunch Presbyterians so she didn't convert during their lifetime.

I concede I am unlikely to get any further back with this line. But I'm interested to note a message here about another Seagoe ancestor William Hewitt who also joined the Royal Artillery and married Eleanor Webb in Woolwich. (For the RA, all roads lead to Woolwich.) John's daughter Elizabeth married Henry Horne Webb in Woolwich so I may have a distant connection by marriage to William Hewitt.

Phil Mackie

Phil,

I suspected it might be a mixed marriage. Well you know where you stand with RC records for Seagoe.  Very few RC parishes in rural Ireland have records before the 1820s so this is fairly typical. Plus it’s a general rule of Irish research that many families come to a standstill around 1800 due to the lack of records. If you were very wealthy, a landowner, or infamous you might get a mention earlier, but for the vast majority of the population officialdom’s eye just passed them by. Plus as you know, the early censuses are nearly all lost.

Good luck anyway.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

When Griffith's Valuation in Armagh was published in 1864, there were 47 McCann head of households in Segoe. Perhaps some of John's siblings were among them. You can search Griffith's at askaboutireland.

glanvil3@aol.com

Elwyn,

It is frustrating not being able to get any further. Even just one generation back to find his parents would be very helpful. I'm sure I have a lot of distant Irish cousins but since I can't identify any of John's family of origin it is practically impossible to trace forward. And of course it is not just about putting names on a tree. I have learnt a lot of history along the way. There are a lot of army connections with the McCann line. John saw far more of the world as a gunner than he ever would as a weaver. I've mentioned William Hewitt; perhaps a other young men from in and around Seagoe also joined up. John's father-in-law was in the Royal Artillery. His son James - my g-grandfather - spent 21 years in the army. He met and married Mary Dunne in Dublin and spent a lengthy period in India where four of his children were born. Several of John's female decendants married soldiers. My own parents would never have met if my father hadn't been posted to Old Dalby in Leicestershire during WWII.

Patrica,

I've had a look at Griffith's and no doubt some of John's siblings are there but knowing which ones is the challenge. 

Phil Mackie

Yes, lots of Irish people joined the army. Probably for the same reasons people join today. It provided a trade, a steady income and you got to see a bit of the world. If you stuck it out for 25 years or whatever you also got a pension. Much better than subsistence level living as a weaver. As the 1800s progressed mechanisation of weaving into big water powered mills in places like Belfast, Lisburn and Lurgan (where most of the employees were women) made the home weaving industry uneconomic, so it was a dying trade. Another reason to leave.

Not sure how you are going to track down relatives in Armagh with the limited information and records you have. DNA perhaps?

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

A quick search on Find My Past lists about 250 people from Seagoe - including four McCanns - enlisting from the 1920s to 1950s. Broadening the search to all of Armagh takes to total well beyond 6,000.

I shall probably go down the DNA route one day. I'm not having much more luck tracing relatives of Mary Dunne. She and James McCann married in Dublin but the 1911 census shows she was born in Belfast.

Phil Mackie

Mary Dunne was born before the start of statutory birth registration in Ireland (1864) so you are reliant on church baptism records. I did search the RC records on Ancestry but did not see a Mary baptism in Belfast with father James. However St Mary’s, the oldest RC church in Belfast, doesnot have any records before 1867, so if she was baptised there, there is no record to find.

Death registration started in 1864. James Dunne was dead by 1879. If he died before 1864, then again there will be no record.  He was a smith. I looked for a smith death in Belfast 1864 – 1879 but did not find one. However there is a death in 1869 of a man aged 50. That’s not on-line free yet. If you want to look at it you need to pay to view on the GRONI site (£2.50). 

I checked the street directories for Belfast for 1852 & 1861 but did not see a James Dunn(e), smith, listed.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

I've just ordered an Ancestry DNA kit. Chirstmas sale £59 reduced from £79 until 24 December.

Phil Mackie

I rather suspect the search for Mary Dunne will just lead to blind alleys. We don't know how reliable Belfast is as a birthplace. The census return was compiled by James and he may have been mistaken. If her parents moved when she was very young, Mary herself may not have been certain where she was born. Find My Past offers me a hint of Mary Dunne baptised 20 August 1860 in Aughaval to parents James Dunne and Catherine O'Donnell but that is a long way from both Belfast and Dublin so may just be a coincidence.

After Jame McCann died, Mary remarried, to Patrick Joseph Brown on 5 August 1925 in Woolwich. Patrick was born in Cill Mua, date of birth from 1939 register was 4 May 1856. I haven't gone to far into his background as he is not a blood relative but census records show that in 1881 he was in Woolwich with wife Susan Elizabeth (Green) and daughter Anna, born c. 1880 in Cork. He and Susan had six more children in Woolwich: Bartholomew (1881) John (1883) James (1886) Patrick (1888) William (1890) Richard (1892) and Thomas G (1895). He died in Eltham on 2 January 1941 and was buried in Woolwich cemetery on 4 January. Susan died in the Woolwich Union Infirmary on 28 November 1922 and was buried in Woolwich cemetery on 5 December. (I have found a tree match with Patrick in Ancestry so can extract further details from there.)

Phil Mackie

Posting for my brother in law Robert Boyne.

We have a John McCann married to Christina Stewart in North Leith 1846. One of their daughters was Emily McCann who married Walter Robert Giles. Emily McCann was the great grandmother of Robert, Kenneth and Stephen Boyne. 

I have several certified copies of bdm certificates in my possession for these family members and siblings if you are interested. I need to go through my notes again to list siblings etc and will be happy to should we appear to be linked..

Regards

Sue Boyne (married to Stephen Boyne)

sboyne66@gmail.com

Hello Sue,

Yes they are the same. My g-grandfather James McCann was Emily's brother. I have been trying to trace forward the McCann line and it would be very interesting to connect with other relatives. There is no private message facility on this site. Are any of you on Ancestry? My user name is phil18710, Mackie family tree.

Phil Mackie

Sorry Phil, I am not with ancestry anymore. I have messenger and Facebook but am on findmypast.

sboyne66@gmail.com

I am on findmypast but cannot currently use the facility to contact other tree owners. You can email me at philipamackie@gmail.com (with hindsight it wasn't a good idea to include my middle initial but the die is cast now)

Phil Mackie

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