Hi, I'm trying to find out where my grandfather was actually born. On his birth record it states
John James Johnston
17th June 1871
Original - Cootehill
Birthplace - County Cavan Ireland
Birthplace - Tullyorcan
Parents: Jane Graham Johnston and James Johnston
He moved over to Liverpool late 1880s
On 1921 Census he put his birthplace as Knockbride.
If anyone can help to where he was actually born I would be very grateful.
Here's a link to the birth register for your John James Johnson's birth on the free IrishGenealogy website - click the image link to view the entry, see record 70 on the page - same parents names as you mentioned, father's occupation is labourer.
The birth took place at Tullylorcan townland which is in Knockbride civil parish, County Cavan. The same townland is given as father's residence so the birth was 'at home' and also given for the informant - his mother Jane , she 'signed' with her mark.
The civil registration district for the Tulylorcan was Cootehill, and the registration sub-district Tullyvin.
See the placename database entry for Tullylorcan townland
I also found a sister to James , Rose Ann Johnson born 29th August 1866 - see this link (entry 265) she was born in the adjacent registration district of Bailieborough. Labourers often had to move around for work so can show up at a number of different location over the years..
Hi shanew147
Thank you so much for your help, it is so much clearer now. He also had a brother Robert Johnston 1859 and
another sister Mary Jane Johnston 6th April 1864 as per 1939 Census
Robert was Married in Drum church to Sarah Graham 15th Nov
1887 but I can't find a birth for him or his sister Mary Jane.
I know I'm asking a lot but could you have a look for these and also
James Johnston and Jane Grahams marriage.
Thanking you again Ann
Full civil registration of births, marriages and deaths started in 1864, anything before that time would require a search of Church records - e.g. baptisms. Just to mention that surname spelling was not fixed - so could be either Johnston or Johnson
Do you know what religious denomination your Johnston/Graham family were ?
A search of Catholic baptism records is not showing any promising matches for the children for me at the moment...Church of Ireland baptisms are not as well represented as Catholic online at the moment.
I checked the 1887 Robert Johnston / Sarah Graham marriage - it took place in a Church of Ireland, so may explain the lack of baptism results. Non-Catholic marriages (i.e. Protestant & Registry Office) were registered from 1845 so If this family were Church of Ireland the marriage of James & Jane should be recorded in civil records - but I'm not seeing a good match...
The only close match, by date and location, is one in 1858 in Cootehill district of a James Johnston and Jane Grimes
The marriage took place in a Church of Ireland Church in Cootehill registration district, I cant make out the church or parish yet, will update ...
Both the bride and groom 'signed' with their marks so probably illiterate.. Graham and Grimes could be mixed up or maybe misheard, the groom's occupation fits - labourer, other than the possible bride's surname mixup seems a reasonable fit
I check further and also see if I can locate any further civil births after 1864 and update here..
Hi again
The family were Church of Ireland.
The marriage you found for James Johnston and Jane Grimes I have previously looked at myself. I think you are correct and I think Grimes was a mistake and should have been Graham.
James died before 1883 as Jane Johnston married William Mills also at Drum Church. I can't seem to find this now. Jane is on the 1901 census and visiting her daughter in Liverpool at the time of census.
Janes surname was Mills.
I have paid to see the 1921 census
For Mary Jane Flack nee Johnston and her birth is Knockbride Cavan.
Here's a link to the 1883 marriage of William MIlls and Jane Graham (formerly Johnson), see image 1 - the marriage took place in Drum Church of Ireland Cootehill registration district. Both the bride and groom give their residence as simply Drum, which is in County Monaghan, a Church of Ireland Chapel of ease was in the village, the parish was Currin. The 1884 ecclesiastical Directory confirm the location - James Greer A.B.is listed as 'Currin Drum', Dicoese of Clogher, matching the marriage cert. Drum village is close to the Monaghan/Cavan county border and about 6km (~4 miles) from Cootehill town..
The birthplace Mary Jane gave of 'Knockbride' in 1921 is a civil parish covering just over 60 townlands, including one also named Knockbride. The civil parish was covered by two civil registration districts - Cootehill & Bailiborough.
There were just over 250 Johnson/Johnston births registered in the two districts between 1864 and 1884, and narrowing down to just those for Mary/Mary J. etc brings that down to 22, I went though these - two of which were Mary Jane (middle names do not appear on the IrishGenealogy index) , unfortunately no sign that I could see of your Mary Jane - possibly she was a little older than see thought and born before civil birth records started in 1864, or she was born in another part of Ireland. The surname Johnston is is even more common further north.
Looking to Church records - Knockbride Church of Ireland parish is in Kilmore Diocese, baptism ,marriage & death/burial records for the parish co back to 1827 and are held buy the RCB Library* in South County Dublin. RootsIreland (pay website) apparently have some transcripts for the parish. For reference Currin Church of Ireland parish records are also held by the RCB Library and cover back to 1835 for baptisms and 1812 for marriages, also some coverage on RootsIreland.
*RCB - Representative Church Body Library hold many Church of Ireland Historic records.
Thank you so much for your help
Ann