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John Gorman & Mary Meagher (Maher) - Co. Tipperary

We have been searching over 20 years for a connection between my GGF Daniel Gorman (DOB 1853-1854 who landed in Canada 1880) and his parents John Gorman & Mary Meagher (Maher?) from Co. Tipperary. 

Anyone have any info on this couple and/or with a Daniel Gorman from this time period.  To date we have not found any direct connection to confirm a match.

There is documentation that Daniel served in the Armed Forces from the British Armed Forces and Overseas Banns & Marriages (Canada 1882).  And there is unconfirmed info that Daniel may have actually been born in either India or East Indies, with the assumption that John also served and was stationed there at the time of birth.

The only info we have on a John & Mary is a 1841 marriage in Clonakenny, but no other info that they had a child named Daniel.  I've talked to the North Tipperary center and they did not find any additional info than what I have to date.  We have checked most of the online resources from Ireland and elsewhere but no luck to date.

Any info to help open up this brick wall is welcome.

Don Gorman

FYI - Plans underway for trip to Ireland in early May.

 

dongorman29

8 replies

Don:

If you have not done so already, please complete this form regarding your trip to Ireland  https://www.irelandxo.com/meet-and-greet

I looked at two subscription sites: Roots Ireland and FindMyPast.ie  and on Roots Ireland I located baptismal records for six children (1841-1852) of a John Gorman and Mary Maher in the Cournageen/Bourney parish in North Tipperary. This is the same family that you located the 1841 marriage record and there was no record for a Daniel.

I did find another record in the Bansha/Kilmoyler RC parish in South Tipperary. The child was Ellen G. and her father was John G. and mother Mary Meagher and Ellen was baptized on May 29 1838. See link. No way of confirming if the G. stood for Gorman.

https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000632650#page/68/mode/1up

Have you considered a general DNA test? You may get matches on your Gorman/Meragher line.

Roger McDonnell

 

 

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Hi Don,  I have seen the marriage in 1841.
Meagher you also put Maher.  Ok then.
Daniel and his parents went to Canada in 1880 is this correct?
I have names of children to John and Mary in the same Parish as the marriage in 1841.
All of these went to the USA in 1853.
They don't have a Daniel.
Cannot see a ship record for any Daniel Gorman in 1880.
What is the name of Daniel's wife please.
Margot

Margot Secrette

Margot,

Here is some additional info I have been working with:
- The 1901 Canada Census (Halifax, Nova Scotia) shows born June 1854, Ireland with Immigration to Canada in 1880
- There is no family info or documentation that his parents travelled with him.   
- According to Pier 21 (Canadian Immigration Museum, Halifax, NS) all shipping records around this timeframe were destroyed in a fire!
- 1891 Census shows India as place of birth!
- 1922 Death Certificate list John Gorman & Mary Meagher both born in Ireland.  Also shows DOB as June 14th, 1853 in East Indies!
- Married to Agnes Newcomb in 1882 (Canada - Source: GRO Index Army Marriages / Record Set: British Armed Forces and Overseas Banns & Marriages)
- Marriage lists John & Mary from Co. Tipperary.
- The Newcomb line goes back to the late 1660's in North America and no info relating to John & Mary in Ireland.

For several decades we have been searching both Daniel and his parents in Ireland and in India and East Indies under the assumption he and his father both served in the military.  The only records for John & Mary is the family from the 1841 marriage, but as mentioned there is no direct connection to Daniel.

We realize these records may have been lost forever but here's hoping someone local to Tipperary can provide some leads we can follow.

FYI - DNA test is also on the schedule soon.

Don  

 

 

 

dongorman29

Hi Don,

In Griffiths Valuation John is the only John Gorman in North Tipperary. In a townland called Shanacloon.  This is Bourney map, look down and you will see Shanacloon. This s in The Roscrea area. The landlord was Catherine Maher.  There are two Shanacloon townland the other is south near Cappawhite.
Griffith's Valuation (askaboutireland.ie)
You can identify the actual land where they are.
(I will do this as it’s hard to explain in my next message)

Townlands in Bourney
Look down the list of names and you will see Shanacloon, click on it and you will see Clonakenny.

If you use this……link below,  use the dates I have listed below in the Bournea and Corbally you will see the actual record.
Catholic Parish Registers at the NLI

In the Parish where the marriage is listed .......Bournea and Corbally.
I looked at the births for after February 1841 and got...........
Michael 21st December 1841
Patrick 21st January 1844
Catherine 1st March 1846
Eliza 26th December 1849
John 21st November 1852

I cannot see Daniel.

I wonder if Daniel used his confirmation name and he is the John above.

NOTE………….Roger McDonnell………………..you say you got 6 names of children for Mary and John, I could only find 5. Please let us know the one missing from my list, thanks.

Cheers
Margot

 

Margot Secrette

Hi Margot and Don!

I went back to my search of Roots Ireland in North Tipperary and have now revised my number of children to five.  Roots Ireland presented a sixth record for an Ellen Gorman with the correct parents but the RC parish was Cloughjordan and the date was March 1 1846 and Catherine was baptized on January 1 1846 in Cournageen. So different family and the correct number is five.

One other point, the name of the child may be Martin rather than Michael. Roots transcribed the name as Martin and when I went to the parish register, the name is not clear but appears to be Martin.

Roger

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Hi,
from the map on Griffiths Valuation
Modern and Contemporary Maps (askaboutireland.ie)

Open the link……………

You will a white circle and a red oblong.  Looking at the top of the oblong zoom in slow until you see the “O” of Bourney   zoom in a little more and you will see a number 4, just below you will see Shanacloon.  That’s the area.
Follow the thick red line down and you will see Sarah Vitte  (not sure what is. Looks like a large House) Then below this the RC Church and graveyard.
Cheers
Margot

Margot Secrette

Good one Roger.

Margot Secrette

Margot / Roger,

Thanks for the leads but it looks like I am still seeking a direct connection.  I already had some of this and will file the new info in the 'Unsolved Daniel' folder in the hopes I can connect the dots back to Ireland one day!.

Don Gorman

dongorman29

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