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John Doolan b.1817

Hi there,
I have been researching my GGG'FATHER John Doolan. He was convicted in 1837 of stealing spoons in Dublin. He was transported on the Neptune (4) arriving in Sydney on 3rd January 1838. I was sent a newspaper article about his trial by Kilmainham gaol which stated that he had spent time in the Richmond Bridewell but available records are only accessible from 1845 onwards and he would have been in there in 1836/7. It states his name with the spelling I have used so I now know the name search is exact. It also said he had told the policeman that he had been out with his sister, so (if he was telling the truth) there is a sister.
His convict outline from muster on arrival in Australia states he originated in County Kildare. I cannot find any reference to a street address.
I need help to work backwards please. Are there records for the Richmond Bridewell prior to 1845?
His death certificate (d.1900) states that his father's name was John Doolan and that he was a tailor. It states that his mother's name was Mary Lancaster and that he was born in Liverpool UK. His convict description also states his fingernails were disfigured and that he had pierced ears so I've often wondered if he worked as a sailor. The trial records state he was a house servant.
I would dearly love to know if I have a family connection in Ireland. I've been to Ireland and felt the pull of the earth under my feet... Like I belonged there.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give.
Smiles, Kerrie Doolan. (Queensland, Australia)

kdool64@gmail.com

5 replies

There is a record on FindMyPast which appears to relate to your John, the collection is titled 'Irish Prison Registers 1790-1924', as far as I can see it contains most of the same detail as the NSW Convict Indents 1788-1842 collection which I presume you have already seen.

Prison : Kilmainham 16th June 1837, John Doolan, County: Dublin City, Crime : felony spoons & tongues, Sentance : 7 years, 1st June 1837, tried by : recorder,
age 37, height 5ft 7in, eyes : hazel, hair : light brown, complexion :fair, date committed : 16th June 1837, How disposed of : Neptune 19th August 1837,

The only major details that this prison record do not include that are on the NSA Ident are the religion RC, and native county Kildare.

The very early date is a problem, very few Catholic rural parishes have records before about 1830, and without kowing parish in county Kildare it's a very difficult search..

I had a quick look through the available RC KiIdare parishes for any possible Dolan/Doolan/Doolin - Lancsater matches, but nothing promising showed upunfortunately

 

 

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

As far as I can tell that collection on FindMyPast contains most of the available prison registers held by the National Archives of Ireland, there are also some available on FamilySearch but these appear to relate to the same collection. A search of the National Archives Catalogue for references to this prison for earlier items shows letters and reports etc, but no earlier registers that I could see. FamilySearch did show some earlier records described as 'Richmond Penitentiary Registers 1831-1898', but the earliest batch 1831-40 are for female prisoners.

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

Thank you shanew147. Yes I have that description. If he was born in Liverpool UK but the family was Irish, where would I begin to look for a birth certificate?

kdool64@gmail.com

1817 is too early for an English birth cert, civil registration started there in mid 1837, but there should have been a baptism - problem is finding it, particularly early Catholic records.. assuming a written record exists somewhere. I have seen some Liverpool Catholic transcripts online, but dont think any were as early as 1817.  I'll see if I can find a link.... apparently Ancestry has some that might be worth checking..

I would have thought that the native place on the prison records of County Kildare was more likely, especially as it's so close to County Dublin and the city. I did see the reference to Liverpool but assumed that was was in reference to his mother Mary, and the 'he' might have been a typo. In case you hadn't spotted, the surname given for Mary is a little like Lancashire which is the English county where Liverpool is.

By the way dont worry too much about spelling - the surname could appear as Dolan, Doolin, Doolen etc or even possibly Dowling - all the same surname, just spelt differently by officials, ministers etc
One other point - early Catholic records here in Ireland could be written partially in Latin, especially first names, so for John something like Johannas, Mary would be Maria, months could also appear in Latin but easy enough to work out, surnames will remain as they are, as at least as they sound. I suspect early Catholic registers in England could be in Latin also, at least for some parishes,
 

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

Thank you! I did find a John and Mary "Doolin" had a baptism for baby John. If I remember correctly it was the Kildare and something starting with L region but Clonmore was the heading on the register. I've looked at Google maps and Clonmore isn't in Kildare... About an hour away. There is also a marriage for John Doolan and Anna Kennan in 1835... If it's him that would mean he was married before he was transported. He was 18 so a marriage isn't out of the question. There is also the birth of a daughter Teresa in 1835. I tried to move forward with these names but all I came up with was Teresa Doolan was in a poor house in 1855. She would be 19 or 20. The exit date does not indicate whether she died or was discharged.

In his later life John Doolan has a bit of a 'gap' . He was married to Jane Mansfield in 1845 and they went on to have four children, the first of whom passed aged 3. Their last child was born in 1859 but then Jane is recorded as having four children with a Charles Hobson. There is a newspaper article that confirms this but Hobson and Jane never married. Hobson was reminisced about by John and Jane's son John as being his step-father - this was in his death notice in the newspaper.

My John Doolan was put into a benevolent asylum in 1897 due to his time in "the army". There was no official army at the time, just recruits taken on from the local population. I have found a record of a John Doolan ranked "Ord" on a ship named the Sans Pariel, which had taken on the crew of the Calliope when it was decommissioned at the end of the 1850's. The Calliope HAD taken on men from the general population in Sydney in the late 1850's but I think it was 1857... So my brain is telling me that Jane was having an affair so John joined the forces. It actually would be fantastic if this is true because a 7 year sentence was effectively a life sentence... Where would ex convicts be able to go? So the thought that he may have gotten to go back makes me smile. If he did, I wonder whether he reconnected with his family. He died on Liverpool NSW in 1900 so he returned to NSW. There are anecdotal memories of him living with his son and daughter in law in Murrumburrah in the 1870's.

I probably should be happy with what I have found. Its taken me ten years of on and off digging. Its just that I'd love to know if I have any direct family. Perhaps I need to consider a DNA test.

Thanks again for your help! You're amazing. I'm very grateful.
Smiles, Kerrie

kdool64@gmail.com

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