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James O'Brien and Mary Maher/Meagher died c 1850 Ballywilliam Co Tipperary

Tipperary

I will be visiting Tipperary in Sep/Oct 2020 and want to visit the location of my 3 x great grandparents James O'Brien and Mary Maher/Meagher. I would appreciate help, please, to find out more about them. I have the below information but I am not sure it is totally correct. If anyone can advise me which records are best to search it would be helpful or add to the below. And "cousins" still there would be great to meet.

My 2 x great grandmother Bridget O'Brien came to Sydney Australia in 1855 with her sister Margaret. Their older sister Ellen came in 1851 (aged 22 at marriage in 1851 so born c.1829)and possibly a sister Mary. Bridget married James Gray from Leicester in 1857. Her M certificate shows she was from Ballywilliam, Tipperary and aged 18 so born c. 1839. Father J O'Brien Labourer and Mother Mary Maher. Religion RC.

Her death cert of 1909 has age 71, Place of Birth Tipperary, Ireland, 53 years in NSW.F and M Unknown.

There is reference to their being from Ballywilliam near Castleton (but is this Castletown and maybe not correct?).

I found a Marr record from Templemore, Co Tipperary which may be her parents - 11 Feb 1828 James O'Brien of Thurles, RC, to Mary Maher of Clonmore, RC. A witness was Ellen Maher (her sister or mother?).

From Ancestry an O'Brien birth in Tipperary- Margaret 19 Feb 1837 with F James O'Brien aged 31 (s born c. 1806) and M Mary 27 (so born c 1810) -would fit.

I was told both James O'Brien and Mary Meagher/O'Brien died in 1850 during the famine and at Burgess but would this be Burgessbeg (graveyard) as it is close to Ballywilliam and Burgess is not. There was mention that James O'Brien was born at Burgess but again maybe Burgessbeg was meant (a townland?).

Other O'Brien births in Tipperary I have seen which might be for children of James and Mary - 2 x Mary in 1831, 1832 and 2 x William 1834 and 1835. There is one for a Bridget 27 Jan 1835 but this would not fit with her being 18 at marriage 01 July 1857 nor with age on her Death cert. The husband James Lodge of her sister Ellen had to give permission to marry as bride and groom (James Gray born Leicester 1837) were under age.

WHAT I WOULD REALLY LIKE HELP TO FIND OUT IS:

- Do all above look to be my family?

- Were there other children? And any who possibly stayed in Tipperary to have descendants there now?

- Can the births of James O'Brien and Mary Maher/Meagher be found to find their parents and any siblings?

- Is there a Kennedy connection to this family (to fit with a DNA match I have) - Honora Kennedy c 1832-1893 born in Tipperary and diedin South Australia hadparentsWilliam Kennedy andSarah Hogan. The 18 Feb 1832 chr of Mary O'Brien to James O'Brienand Mary Maher had a Patrick Hogan as a sponsor.

Thankyou in anticipation, Marilyn Long

Sydney, Australia

Marilynlong201…

4 replies

Hi Marilyn Long . . . 

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out  . . . 

Your query is long and complex . . . which most of our researchers might have overlooked . . . 

Because I live in County Tipperary . . . our Head Office . . have asked me to see if I can help . . so . . .

Searching on " rootsireland.ie " ..( a paid search engine ) . . . I started with the possible Wedding of 

James O'Brien to Mary Maher c. 1828 . . +/- 10 yrs. . . . which info. turned up  (see below ) one only hit . . . 

 1828 . . marriage in CLONMORE, . . which is between . . .Templemore and Thurles . . . Co.Tipperary.

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You mention " Ballywilliam " . . . there is a Ballywilliam in Tipperary  . . .some 50 miles west of Thurles ( see map (1) below )

There very well may be a sub townsland near Templemore / Thurles . . . at that time . . but I failed to find one  . . BUT . . 

what I did find was a townsland named . . . CASSESTOWN . . . similar in sound to your hint of   " Castleton " (see Map below )

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I did search . . and . . failed to find any Church Records . . .pertaining to Ballywilliam . . . possibly no Church there in those years . . .

Nenagh . . . would be the nearest bigger town . . . 

Nenagh has a Historical Research Office . . . PAID . . . as follows . . . https://www.tipperarycoco.ie/heritage/nenagh-heritage-centre

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I searched for a BIRTH record of a JAMES (O')Brien . . .born Tipperary c, 1810   + /- 5 yrs. . . 

and found TWO possible hits  (see below) . . . one born in Moycarkey . . in 1804 ( proximity to Thurles )

then in 1807 . . . in Thurles Town . . . JAMES . . . with a Mother named ***  Maher

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Next . . . ELLEN ...b.1829  . . . . I found Ellen Brien . . registered birth in Templemore . . . ( see below )

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BRIDGET . . b.1839 . . . NO useful hit found . . . 

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MARGARET . . . B. Thurles  . . .1829 . . . O'Brien . . to James / Mary     (see below )

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MARY . . . (see below ) . . . 1 Aug. 1831 . . Templemore

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I chose to stick to IRELAND only . . . in searching . . . 

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I am even sure . .IF we are on to the right family . . . of (O')Brien . . . as above  . . . 

but . . . it looks possible  . . . 

WHEN you get to Ireland . . in your travels . . . I do hope you can seek out more info. 

Thurles Library may be of good help . . . as also Templemore . . . 

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The lucky ones escaped the Famine ( An Gorta Mór ) ..by a mere few years . . . and . . yes . . it;s quite possible 

the Parents were victims . . . 

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I HOPE the above . . . will add to your sum of knowledge  . . . 

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Cheers . . . Eamonn.

-

 

Eamonn M. HoranIrelandXO Volunteer

FURTHER   . . . 

Looking at MARY MAHER of Clonmore Templemore . . married   . . 11 Feb 1828 . . in Templemore

SO . . looking at a Land Tax Roll . . . from that time . . 1823 - 1837  . . .a.k.a.      Tithes Applotment (see below )

BIRTH's . . of Mary Maher's  . . . around that time scale  (see below)

Fast Forward . . . to 1901 Census . . . that district . . . (see below)

MAYBE . . . these are Mary's relatives . ?????????????????????

Eamonn M. HoranIrelandXO Volunteer

Eamonn, thankyou so much for all this work. I will study all on the weekend but it looks like they might be a tricky family to nail down. Your help is greatly appreciated. Regards, Marilyn.

Marilynlong201…

Eamonn, thankyou again, I have had a good look and there is a lot for me to work on.

I found 2016 information my cousin obtained from North Tipperary Genealogy & Heritage Services and they have 3 of the daughters christened at Burgess which they have as Youghalarra-Burgess Parish RC - Ellen 28/12/1828, Mary 19/2/1832, Bridget 27/1/1835 (who may have lied about being 18 at marriage as her husband was born 1837 and she didn't want to be older). For some of these you have a slightly later date and that may be when a 2nd copy of the record was submitted to a central registry - like the Bishop's copies in England. 

Ellen 1840 would be too late as she was marrying in NSW in 1851.

The Feb 1828 marriage of James and Mary looks good. 

I can't find information on Cassetown but it comes up in relation to real estate in Thurles.

The 2 baptisms of James O'Brien both look possible - 1804 born Moycarkey not far from Thurles and 1807 in Thurles.

Someone found on Ancestry (which I don't have a subscription for so will need to go to a library) a baptism for Margaret 19 Feb 1837 and James the father was 21 so that is where 1806 came from.  But he could have been born 1804 or 1807.

The 1804 bapt has parents Patrick Brien and Ellen Griffin and sponsors Denis and Bgt Shanahan - the first daughter was Ellen and from NTG&H her bapt sponsors were Patrick Brien and Margaret Brien (maybe James' father or a brother and his wife). And another daughter Bridget.

The 1807 bapt has parents Terence Brien and Bridget Maher and sponsors James Maher (an uncle?) and Anne Gallagher - James had a daughter Bridget. There is mention of one called Anne but I'm not sure of this.

The NTG&H bapt for Mary had sponsors Patrick Hogan and Margaret Maher, and for Bridget John Collins and Margaret Meagher.

For all 3 baptisms the father James was O'Brien, and mother Mary was variously Maher and Meagher.

So maybe the 1804 looks a bit more likely and Moycarkey is a little south of Thurles.

For the 1828 marriage registered at Templemore James was from Thurles and Mary from Clonmore a little NE of Templemore.

Maybe they had to go to Templemore to be married in Feb 1828 and by the end of that year 1828 were in the Parish of Youghalarra-Burgess at or near Ballywilliam which is where Bridget says she is from. I think Youghalarra-Burgess RC records only started in 1828 (Ellen was bapt in Dec 1828).

Bapt for Mary Maher 19 Aug 1910 looks good - Parish/District Templemore, address Borrisberg which is between Templemore and Clonmore, RC, parents John Maher and Judith Guinane ( a good name to look into as doesn't sound too common), sponsors John Meagher (different spelling - an uncle?) and Nancy Mackey.

You have given me some extra information on these and I will explore how I might find more and especially parentage for James and Mary and if they had other children who may have stayed in Tipperary and the 1901 Census May be useful.

 

Regards, Marilyn

Marilynlong201…

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