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Irish Ancestors Living in Scotland

A recent email from Ireland XO mentioned tracing Irish ancestors living in Scotland. I have such a situation. Patric McManus (abt 1829- ) married Catherine Lee (abt 1829- ) and they lived in Edinburgh near the FIrth of Forth. Both were born in Ireland. They had two children: Patrick (1853- ) and Margaret (1856-1944). Margaret emigrated to the USA around 1875. Our family has a beautiful photo album begun in the 1800s by the J. McManusStudio, 13 High Street (besides Knox's Church), in Edinburgh.I believe J. McManus must bea close relative.I would love to find out where in Ireland these two people came from. Can anyone help? Thanks so much. Tom

t.j.mahoney@co…

4 replies

Tom,

I see a marriage for Patrick McManus and Kitty Lee registered in St Mary’s RC parish in Haddington, Midlothian on 13.2.1854. Might be worth looking at that record to see if any information is given about parents or parish of origin in Ireland. Children to that couple in the RC church records for Haddington:

Margaret baptised 4.1.1855

Patrick 16.3.1856

Bridget 26.11.1857

Jane  3.7.1862

In the 1861 census I see 3 of the family in Dunbar. (Patrick 28, Patrick 5 & James 0).  Surname spelled McMannis. I don’t know where the rest of the family was. Possibly a closer search of the census may find them. Or perhaps they were back in Ireland.  However I can see the full family in the 1871 census for Humbie, East Lothian, with 7 children.  It confirms both Patrick & Catherine were born in Ireland but doesn’t say where (as was normal). The baptism & census records are all on the Scotlandspeople site:

https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/search-our-records

I noted a second McManus family living nearby in Humbie in the 1871 census. That was a Patrick McManus married to Bridget McGovern. They married 28.4.1854 in Haddington.  The 2 families childrens naming patterns are similar eg they both had children named Hugh. So I’d suspect they may be related.

Patrick & Kitty seem to have left Scotland by 1881 though the other family - Patrick & Bridget - are still in Humbie.

There’s a tree on Ancestry (McManus/Jordan) which has the McManus & McGovern family. They have their Patrick McManus born in Boyle, Co Cavan in 1828.  I can’t find anywhere in Cavan named Boyle, and the year of birth doesn’t tie in with the 1871 census which indicates Pat was born in 1836. They also have Patrick dying in Humbie on 14.8.1875. However the death certificate index says he was 60 (so born c 1815). So some of that information may need reviewing. However the owner of that tree seems to have information that his/her Patrick came from Co. Cavan. You might want to contact them to see where that came from.  Given that the 2 families lived so close to each other it’s possible yours came from there too.

Your family appears to disappear from Scotland after the 1871 census. You obviously know Margaret went to the USA c 1875. What about the others? Any idea where they went? Did they go with her? Your Patrick’s death certificate could reveal his parents names and occupations which ought to be helpful.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Hello Elwyn, 

Thank you so much for your numerous suggestions, which was the incentive for me to reveiw everything that I did have in my records.  In my ancestry.com files, I found a 1922 Passport application (attached) for Patrick McManus that provided more information, and a correction to what I indicated earlier.  The Passport application states that his Father was James McManus, not Patrick as I indicated earlier; that Patrick emigrated to the USA in 1882, and that he married Winifred in 1909 in Chicago, Ill.  It also indicates that he visited Scotland and Ireland twice to visit relatives, so some family remained.

Thru Ancestry, I then learned that Winifred's maiden name was McBride.  However, Census reports showing children named McBride, so I am a bit confused as to why they were not named McManus.

I then went on your Scotland website you shared and I could not find any suitable records for either James McManus or Catherine Lee or Patrick or Winifred McBride.

t.j.mahoney@co…

You wonder why the census shows children named McBride and not McManus. Could Winifred have been married before and those children were by her first marriage?

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Yes, that is a good explanation.  Census records here in the USA shows the McBride boys, all three, as "Brothers" rather than "Son".  That could explain that there was a first marriage for Winifred.  I had not heard the McBride name before.

On the McManus side, it makes most sense that the Father's name was James McManus, since he was the one with the photo studio.  I could not find any records, though, for either James or Patrick McManus.  As you look at the records, have you noticed anything that may provide more insight into the McManus family?  Thanks.

Tom

t.j.mahoney@co…

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