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How to find correct parish and townland?

I have ancestors who came to Australia, but I am finding it difficult to pinpoint records for the correct person in County Cavan before they emigrated to Australia. 

The main person is Hugh Fay. His 1923 gravestone in Charters Towers indicates he came from Redhills, while his marriage registration in Townsville 25 October 1882, states he was born in Tullyvin, County Cavan, born about 1843. Parents named as Hugh Fay (farmer) and Susan McCabe. I have found several records with the same names, but nothing that gives me confidence that I've found his real parents or home townland. The same applies to his wife Mary McCaffrey, born about 1857 in Redhills, County Cavan, to parents Patrick McCaffrey (farmer) and Bridget Gaffney.

I have found so many records from census sources, Griffith's Valuations, Catholic Parish registers that I am now confused and cannot verify a single identity as the correct parents. How can I make logical sense of this mess?

 

Peter

peter_joanne@b…

5 replies

Peter:

Tullyvin is a small village in Kildrumsherdan civil parish. The related RC parish is Kilsherdany.

Redhills is another village in Annagh civil parish to the west of Tullyvin. The RC parish is Annagh (Belturbet).

There were six Fay records in the 1855 Griffiths Valuation head of household listing for Kildrumsherdan civil parish: Bernard James Philip Rosanna and Thomas (2). Presumably one of these was the father of Hugh. I searched the subscription site Roots Ireland and did not see a good lead for Hugh Fay around 1843.

I did not find a baptismal record for Mary McCaffrey in Annagh RC parish but there was a couple Patrick McCaffrey/Caffrey and wife Bridget McCaffrey/Caffrey who had children name Bridget John Patrick and Helen.  Do you know the names of Mary's siblings?

 Roger McDonnell

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Thanks Roger.

1. I have a record from the 1821 census for a Bernard Fay (47) Farmer, wife Ann (35),  Mary (11), Hugh (7), Rose (5), Thomas Coyle (70 - wife's father) living in house number 18, Corcloghan in the parish of Castletara. This would place Hugh's (senior) DOB as 1814, which is not inconsistent with Hugh snr being the father of my Hugh Fay, DOB circa 1843. I am beginning to think this might be my ancestral family. But I have no firm evdence.

The 1857 Griffiths Valuation record that you found for Bernard Fay is Lot 29 in the townland of Drumnagran, which shares its NE boundary with Tullyvin, where Hugh Fay jnr was born. Bernard would have been about 83 years old in 1857, but the valuation for that townland might have been completed some years earlier? If Bernard Fay moved from Corcloghan to Drumnagran, next door to Tullyvin, he might have moved to be closer to his son in his older years.? Possible siblings for Hugh jnr are Terence Fay (~1840), Mary Fay (~1841) and maybe Patrick Fay (~1848). The mother of Hugh and his siblings was Susan Fay (McCabe)

2. I have found no marriage records for Susan McCabe and Hugh Fay snr. But I do have baptism records for a Susan McCabe baptised 10 September 1821 to parents Patrick McCabe and Anne Olvany in Urney RC parish County Cavan. I also have a 1821 census record for Patrick McCabe (32) Farmer, Anne (23) Wife and Robert (3) son from Lower Behey Townland, Parish Annageliffe, County Cavan, which would be just a couple months before daughter Susan was born. Does this seem logical to you?

3. Hugh Fay jnr married in 1882, Australia Mary McCaffrey (parents Patrick McCaffrey b 1818 Killyfana Redhills, County Cavan and Bridget Gaffney b 1829 Derryhoo, Belturbet County Cavan). Mary McCaffrey born 1857 ~ 1862, Killyfana Redhills, County Cavan. Possible siblings include Patrick b ~ 1860; Thomas b 1882; Bridget b 1865 (Parish Annagh, not Killyfana); John b 1869 Killyfana, Redhills; Catherine b 1872 Ballyhaise, County Cavan; and James b 1875 Killyfana, Redhills. 

Maybe Bridget and Catherine had different parents to Mary?

So you see I have lots of possible family information, but without marriage or birth/baptism details I have not found confirmation of Hugh Fay jnr and Mary Fay (McCaffrey) families in County Cavan. I think I'm pretty close.

Can you advise wherre I might find specific information?I have exhausted my accessible online sources, and am down to manually searching hand-written parish records, where they exist.

Cheers,

Peter.

peter_joanne@b…

Peter:

You may know that the 1821 census for Co. Cavan is incomplete and slightly less than half of the civil parishes are covered.  https://cavantownlands.com/census-of-1821/

Kildrumsherdan and Annagh parishes are not included in the 1821 census that is available so I would be very cautious using records that you located. You may be correct but both surnames and particularly McCabe are very common in Co. Cavan.

Same with RC church records, many parishes do not have records back to 1821. By my count, 10 of the 31 RC parishes have baptismal records back to 1821 or earlier.

I know I'm not being helpful but I don't want you reaching an incorrect conclusion. You ask for where you can find additional info that might help you confirm some of your data. I'm not aware of any other data sets that may available which would allow you to make progress.

You don't mention DNA testing? Have you taken a general DNA test? Sometimes matches who are third or fourth cousins may have information that may be helpful.

Roger

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Thanks Roger. 

My mother-in-law (Hugh Fay descendant) took a MyHeritage DNAtest recently. I didn't see anyone who I recognised as being of interest, but I wasn't looking for names from Ireland before immigration. 

I'll see how I go.

Thanks

Peter

peter_joanne@b…

Hi Peter,

I agree with Roger, it can be hard to make the links, yes through DNA you may find your family and you hope that the other person has done as much research as you.  I always hope that someone can share the same stories and photos and it has happened to me, although my tree has got wider rather than going back any further!  You could contact Cavan Genealogy to conduct research, they charge a small fee, over the last few years they have been running 'Cavan Calling' and quite a few people from all over the world have come back to Cavan with stories of their ancestors, some have lodge documents with them, it is worth a try.  

Also look out for grave transcriptions, some stones predate written records, though it is usually the wealthier people that could afford fine detailed stones that stands the rigours of time.  

There are still lots of Fays in the Cootehill area according to John Grenham's site there were 70 Fay families in Griffiths, which is far more than any of the other Counties.  You can use his site to locate more information about the name at https://www.johngrenham.com/findasurname.php?surname=Fay, there may be a fee.

Best wishes with your research.  Regards Carmel O'Callaghan.

Genealogy Centre Contact Details
Cavan Genealogy
1st Floor, Johnston Central Library, Farnham St., Cavan
Tel: +353 (0) 49 4361094
Email: info@cavangenealogy.ie

Bailieborough CavanIrelandXO Volunteer

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