I think he immigrated from the Dublin area around 1851, I think he arrived in Mobile in May of that year. He settled in Springfield, Ohio and married Rosa Hackett from Tullamore in 1853. He was a laborer, worked on a farm. Neither could read nor write. The last name has been recorded in records as Grimley, Grumly,Rumley,Bromley, Grumble....so I am not sure what it is. I do know they were Catholic. Can anyone help?
Hi Christine
not sure I can help but I noticed your query and while researching another one I came across a birth in 1725 of a Grumley in St Peters Anglian or Protestant church in Drogheda County Louth see http://ireland.anglican.org/about/185 and Baptisms but I did not check any other of those records such as marriages or deaths.
I searched Griffiths Valuation done 1848 to 1864 and got no hits but many Grimley, mainly in Armagh, Antrim and Dublin. see http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameS… On a chance I searched the Tithe Applottments 1824 to 1838 and was amazed to see 19 Grumleys, mainly in what is now the Irish Republic or Ireland, Kings and Queens is now Laois and Offaly. (Armagh and Antrim are now in Northern Ireland and part of the UK).
The lady he married Rosa Hackett is interesting, a new bridge, the Rosie Hackett bridge was opened in Dublin last year, she was involved in the rebellion of 1916, born in Dublin but unusual enough name. See http://www.womensmuseumofireland.ie/articles/rosie-hackett--2
Catholic parish registers are here http://registers.nli.ie/ but you really need a date as they are not searchable if records even exist, by the way President Obama has an Offaly ancestor.
I searched a subscription site 1821 plus or minus 2 years and got 28 Grumley hits but no Philip, the hits were in Dublin, Wicklow and the midlands, Offaly, Laois, Carlow, Westmeath etc. I also searched Rosa Hackett and got two Rose but they were birth estimates from their deaths, plus one Rose Hackett who gave birth in 1833 so not your lady.
Irish records are not great post 1850 and are hit and miss for various reasons. Civil records started in 1864 for Catholics and are here http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ a search for Grumley from 1864 to 1900 brought back a lot of them under civil records, only Dublin, Cork and Kerry are on Church records but again lots og Grumleys in Dublin plus 1 in Cork various years, no Philip, some hits are for sponsors in Dublin. http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ for perceived legal reasons the site is a sign in site but free. So god I gave the link twice.
If you have any more queries let me know or any follow up.
Regards
Pat
Hi Christine,
confused myself, was wondering why with all those Grumleys hanging around I could not find any on Griffiths previously given so I rechecked and got 66 of them, you are more plentiful than you imagine.
Regards
Pat
Since the name is spelled so many different ways in the records over time and neither could read nor write, how do I know what spelling to use in searching records? Is Gromley a possibility? Is Gormley the same thing? I have found an 5-19-1851 record of a P Gormley that came in through Mobile, Alabama. I am given to understand that this is the port used by those that settled in Ohio between the 2 rivers. He lived in Springfield and later South Charleston, Ohio. I wonder if I am on the right track.
Christine
Hello Again Christine
I checked McLysaghts book the Surnames of Ireland and was surprised to find they are linked to Gormely. this is how it reads,
Gormley / Gormally: then in Gaelic, Ó Gormghaile in Connacht (Connact is the province in the west of Ireland) and Ó Goirmleadhaigh in Ulster, (Ulster is the north of Ireland and is mostly now in Northern Ireland and in the UK) according to O'Donovan (assume this is a previous expert on Irish surnames) who regarded these septs as quite distinct. (A sept is the Irish version of what the Scots call a clan). A study of this interesting and important name is complicated by the fact that in some cases in Ulster in had been changed to Gorman and Grimes. The map shows these names associated with the counties of Donegal; Tyrone both in Ulster and Mayo and Roscommon both in Connacht sometimes spelled Connaught)
Basically he is saying there are two distinct family names of Gormley associated with different parts of Ireland.
I then checked Grumley and the book says this that it is a varient of Gormley found in Leinster, this is our largest province and takes up the east coast and midlands.
Checking Grimley it says this is the County Armagh version of Gormley, Armagh is a county of Ulster that is now in Northern Ireland.
So the simple answer to your question is that yes Grumley can be Gormley.
Also as Grumley is the Leinster version of the name this includes Offaly or then Kings County which is where Tullamore is and Rosa Hacketts place. When did she go over and could he have known her prior to arrival.
Any possibility his parents names are on his death record.
While I mention Provinces etc Ireland is relatively small by US standards, about 350 miles long and maybe 175 miles wide.
As an aside there is a Hackettstown in County Carlow.
Good Luck
Pat
No death record for Philip ........... they said that though they were required it in the county, often times, in the early years, they did not receive it. I contacted the diocese but they are no longer allowing access to records. Philip named his 2 sons George Grumley and then Richard James Grumley. I looked through Griffiths and found familiar forenames...a James Grumley in Geashill, Kings Cty.....a Richard Grumley in Ardea, Queens..........a James in Newtown, Westmeath............and a James Grumley in Kiltiernan, Dublin. I also found a baptismal certificate from Ballysallah, Kilkenny........how would I see if any of those are the correct one?
I have been trying to unknot this puzzle for probably 20 years......... thanks for the help! As more is digitized and placed online, I will find it.........then I will know where to visit!
Chris
Hi Christine
I agree with you about trying but oddly on some sites you see a birth but not on others. You can not definitely say without a direct link and your only remaining hope may be DNA testing.
However a few small things, you may find the American death record on Family Search, the LDS free site, they may have got to them before the church decided to block access as they were doing it before demand spiralled.
Also I searched a subscription site a found a Philip born too early in Finglas, Dublin in 1787. Oddly it does not show up on the Irish Genealogy site previously sent for Dublin.
Another thing that I noticed from your last post is that there was a family in Geashill in Kings (Offaly) now in modern parlance this is a suburb of Tullamore. it is a small rural area a few miles from Tullamore and I wonder if he knew Rosa or just got on with her as they were neighbours children. Any clue from the marriage witnessess as where they were from, I noted in two of my personal searches that the best man or groomsman was of a name found in the home district, people rarely travelled alone I imagine.
Also I see another query about a Grumley or similar from North Dublin but little info on it, see http://www.irelandxo.com/ireland/dublin/skerries/message-board/skerries…
It is more than 4 years old mind.
As for visiting sure you could get a car and see them all, Geashill will not take long, I doubt there is a coffee shop there. Tullamoe is a nice town but again not the most touristy of places but some scenic spots nearby. Kilkenny is well worth a visit as it is well preserved with a large castle etc.
If you ever do anticipate planning a trip let me know if you need info on local public trransport or hotels etc.
Regards
Pat
DNA match to Crookstown, Armagh County. Searching in that area I found: PHILLIP GORMLY baptized May 29, 1825 at St John's RC Church, Middletown, Tynan, Barony Tiranny, Armagh, Northern Ireland. Found his parents John Gormly and Cate Cassidy married in 1822 in Armagh County. Located Griffiths containing Gormly family? Located the O'Gormley clan on a Map of the Four Masters for County Donegal near Strabane and Raphoe. I think I am correct? Any more records I could check?
Hello Again Christine, there is a site that gives land ownership in 1641 prior the plantation and after again in 1671, this is the site https://downsurvey.tchpc.tcd.ie/ after that we have the hearth money rolls list
which is incomplete basically a tax on fire places and the Flax Growers list of 1796, only those growing Flax, in 1715 I think land registry became a thing but was not legally required, there is a voluntary effort to transcribe them and a lot of work has been done.
Privately a man has put up a site containing some of these but I tried it last night and the Flax Growers list appears to have a bug or something, the site is here https://www.failteromhat.com/ Still no Flax Growers but other links working.
Land Registry here This is the home page of the Registry of Deeds Index Project
There is the Tithe Applottments Books, from 1824 to 1838 those holding over an acre of land had to pay a tithe, includes both owners and tenants, it was very unpopular but you can see the name of the land owner and address or townland, the names do not always mirror the area today https://www.titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp
Are you familiar with Griffiths Valuation also, free to see here https://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/
Also there are census scraps available back to 1821 for some counties, select the years prior to 1901 to see, the 1926 census will be available at the end of April 2026 also.
https://census.nationalarchives.ie/
Also free here BMDs from 1864 and Protestant Marriages from 1845. https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/ Very few church records on this site, click on civil to view registers.
You could ask the area library if they have any registers of land owners and tenants or view the library site, usually on the county council or local authority webpage.
Happy Hunting
Pat