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Frank Matthews

Hello

My 2nd great grandfather Frank Matthews came over from Ireland and settled in England in the 1800s. 

Frank was born Circa 1830 and would possibly have been involved with horses, as his sons also did.  Frank had a son also called Frank in about 1850 - 1851, so moving to England would have been prior to his birth.

So far I have not found any other clues about my 2nd great grandfather, I am hopeful to find out more about his life, family, neighbours and area where he could have lived.  My recent DNA tests have not brought up any links in Ireland.

Not much to go on, but if anyone is able to share any clues where I can look I would be most pleased.  Thank you for reading this.

David Matthews.

David M

7 replies

David,

Have you found your Frank/Francis in the 1851 English census? If so, where was he living and what does it say about his place of birth?

The only Francis I can see in the 1851 census born in Ireland c 1830 was in Putney, with his parents. He was 20 and still single. Born in Cashel Co. Tipperary.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Dear Elwyn

Firstly, thank you very much for getting back to me so quickly, very much appreciated and thank you for the information. 

You have pulled in amazing results compared to my efforts, I have not been able to locate a source to Cashel Co. Tipperary, not sure how you managed that, well done. 

His bloodline son also a Frank born in 1951, have ordered his birth certificate hoping that provides a clue.  Certificate due to arrive about 5 Oct. 

Son Frank married a Mary Butt in 1874.

Is there a link I can access to the Irish Census files please?

 

Kind regards

David

David M

David,

Most of the Irish censuses pre 1901 have been destroyed. A few fragments of the earlier ones remain but the only complete censuses currently available to the public are 1901 & 1911 which can be found on this site:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

I don’t know that I have found your family, merely it appears to fit the information you have provided ie that Frances senior was born c 1830 in Ireland and was in England by 1850/51 where he married and then had Francis junior.

The 1851 English census has a family at 4 River St, Putney (South London) consisting of Henry 45, (a newspaper reporter), wife Ann 52, son Frances 20 (all 3 born in Cashel) and daughters Susan 19 and Ann 10 both born in London. So that family evidently moved from Ireland to London around 1831. It’s the only family I can see in England then with a Francis born c 1830 in Ireland.

You have said that Frank jnr married Mary Butt in 1874. I can see that that was in Alcester, Warwickshire, some distance from London.  Where did they live after that? Have you found them in the 1881 census for example? If you can find Frank junior in a census then it should give his place of birth and we can work back from that.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Thank you again Elwyn

You are far more efficient than me.

Interesting that the name of Henry, a news paper reporter appeared, my Paternal Grandfather was named Henry Frank Matthews born 8 December 1874 at shipton on Stour.  I am waiting on the birth certificate of Henry Frank.

I have the birthplace of my great grandfather Frank abt.1851 as Ludlow Leintwardine Oxfordshire.  Died abt. July 1910 at Kings Norton Worcestershire.  (Must have their reasons from changing from Francis to Frank if that is what happened, could have been a nickname he was known as that was transcribed)?

Census 1881 Frank (abt. 1851) living at Stables Bradley's Yard Leanmington Priors Warwickshire

Census 1891 (Frankabt. 1951) living at Leamington Warwickshire.  Not been lucky tracking down previous Census dates as yet.

Frank Married Mary Butt on 17 Feb 1874 at Quinton Warwickshire.  

Paternal grandfather Henry Frank 8 Dec 1874 Shipton on Stour Warwickshire, died 27 Mar 1931 at Market Harborough Leicestershire.  My father James Norman said he was a horseman with the Hussars at Warwick Castle.

Thank you for the information regarding Ann 52 yrs Ireland, Frances 20 yrs Ireland, Susan 19 yrs - London, Ann 10 yrs - London.  I may just as an experiment enter these to see what happens.

The web site must have an upkeep cost, not a large sum but can I donate £20 towards resources?

Kind regards

David M  

David M

Good morning Elwyn

Thought we were getting very close and quite excited, then according to the Census saw that Frances aged 20 is actually female. 

I am guessing that a single T in Mathews is from Ireland, whereas I beiieve that two Ts in Matthews are from France, may be wrong.  I will change the spelling for Frank in Ireland born abt. 1830 to one T.

I would come over to your wonderful country if I could find the place where the actual family lived.  That would be amazing.

If I dont hear from you before, have a great weekend.

Kind regards

David

 

David M

David,

Yes you are quite correct the 1851 Frances is female. My mistake. Can’t be your family.

I searched for Frank in the 1871 & 1861 censuses but without success. His place of birth in the 1881 is Ludlow and in 1891 Leintwardine. Both are in Shropshire. I searched the statutory birth records for that area c 1850m but cannot see a birth that fits. There’s plenty of Mathews births in Ludlow around 1850 but none with forename Frank/Francis. I am a bit baffled.

Several trees on Ancestry have this family but none appear to have found Franks; birth or any earlier information apart from the 1874 marriage. No information on his father other than his name (which presumably came from the marriage certificate). It looks as though others have also struggled to trace the family back.

Thank you for your kind offer of a donation. There is a donate button on this website:

https://irelandxo.com/donate

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Dear Elwyn

Thank you so much for trying for me, certainly not an easy one.  Perhaps later on a DNA ttrace may bring something to light.

I tried to donate a few times but there appears to be a temporary glitch at the moment so will try again later.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend.  Please feel free to keep in touch, if anything turns up I will let you know.

Kindest regards

David 

David M

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