Folks of Polish descent

Greg-alison,

I think you also need to consider what you mean by “Polish”. During the 1800s and until 1918 Poland didn’t exist and most of what is now modern Poland was ruled by others. Most obviously Germany (who held Prussia), but also by Russia, the Austro-Hungarian empire and by Lithuania. It was only in 1918, after the end of WW1, that Poland became independent. But the borders established then were moved fairly dramatically at the end of WW2, with a huge chunk of eastern Poland being given to Russia, and Poland acquiring an equally large chunk of Germany east of the Oder. Part of Prussia became Russian (the modern Kaliningrad exclave).

If you look in the 1901 Irish census, you won’t find anyone putting Poland as their place of birth. Folk from that general geographic area put Russia, Germany and so on. That makes it very difficult to count the Poles.

This is a test comment for Elwyn.

Roger

It is possible using a little technical trickery to search for people on the 1901 census who noted their place of birth as 'Poland' - 116 in all, mostly in Dublin, Cork city and Belfast but a few in other areas - 1901 'Poland'

The Aliens Register 1914-1918 DMP District A on the Genealogical Society of Ireland website shows some of the interesting entries on this topic - e.g.

Name : Mike Barrett

Place of Birth : Warsaw, Poland

Nationality : Russian..

see: https://www.familyhistory.ie/docs/aliens/Aliens.pdf

On the 1911 census he is shown as born Russia

tippman,

What do you mean by Polish?

I can’t say what folks originating from what is now modern Poland felt about their national identity in the 19th century. I can’t suggest a simple source that would answer Greg’s question in any accurate way. Shane has come up with some statistics of folk born in Poland which are interesting but include a Russian born in Warsaw. I am reminded of the famous Irish lawyer and nationalist Daniel O’Connell who reportedly said of the Duke of Wellington: “The poor old duke what shall I say of him. To be sure he was born in Ireland, but being born in a stable does not make a man a horse.”

Having spent quite a lot of time in modern Poland, in particular in what was once East Prussia I can tell you that around 1900, a lot of the population there were of Germanic origins. Though the Poles did a pretty good job of obliterating anything linking to Germany at the end of WW2 and expelling the few remaining Germans who had not fled or been killed, you can still see lots of evidence of German rule and influence all over Poland. So in 1900 that part of the population probably saw themselves as German. Likewise for the Lithuanian Poles. Did they feel Lithuanian or Polish? Who knows? How do you find out? Someone of Germanic, Lithuanian, Romanian or Russian descent born in what is now modern Poland wouldn’t necessarily see themselves as Polish. There’s a massive Hungarian enclave in modern Romania who are fiercely proud of not being Romanian. What is really being measured here?

Greg’s question is hard to answer because there’s neither a definition of Polish in the 1800s nor a way to accurately count those in Ireland in say 1900 who might fall under any such definition. It’s like asking how many Normans there were in Ireland in 1600. How do you define a Norman and then how do you count them?

In Ireland today at least a quarter of the population are entitled to both Irish and British nationality. How would you best count them? What is their sense of national identity?