Family of James Finn and Sarah Brown, Srahavarrella, parish of Clonoulty, Tipperary

 

Hi Dave. I was interested to read the information that you have about descendants of James Finn and Sarah Browne as they are my GGG grandparents also. You may already have the following information now but some great research has been done on immigration from Clonoulty to Australia and it mentions particularly the Browne family but also the Finns. Part one was in 1995 Tipperary Historical Society Journal

http://tipperarystudies.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/1995%2013%20%5Bpp%20117-132%5D%20Richard%20Reid.pdf

There also a part 2 so I will try and track that down alson

Maree Woods

Hi Maree,

Yes, I found Richard Reid's article on the Brownes of Clonoulty extremely useful in sorting out possible links between the Finns and the Brownes. I also have a copy of his book, "Farewell My Children", and his 1992 PhD thesis. His second article in the series is available at http://tipperarystudies.ie/tipperary-historical-journal-2001/; your note reminded me that I still have to get my own copy of this article. 

Are you descendant from their son Patrick Finn & Margaret Banon, or from another of their children? I'd be interested in the details, as Patrick was their only child I have direct evidence for through his immigration record.

Dave

 

Hi Dave

Yes I am descendent from Patrick and Margaret ( through daughter Sarah). Was wondering what you think is the connection to Nancy Vinn who married William Ryan as noticed James Vinn witness at their wedding( This William Ryan I believe is brother of Ned Ryan of Galong)

 

Hi Maree,

I do not have direct evidence, but believe that Nancy Vinn was most probably a daughter of James Finn and Sarah Brown, and hence a sister to Patrick Finn.

As you said, she married William Ryan in Srahavarrella on 18 February 1828 (NLI  Microfilm 02502/07 page 197) in the presence of Mathew Ryan, James Vinn and Patrick Ryan; folk usually married in the bride's townland, and there was only one Finn (namely James) listed in the Tithe Applotment Book for Clonoulty circa 1825-1830.

They had four children together in Ballagh, namely Anastasia baptised on 7/11/1830 (NLI Microfilm 02502/07 page 95), John on 26/10/1832 (NLI Microfilm 02502/07 page 118), James on 16/02/1834 (NLI Microfilm 02502/07 page 135, and died at Galong on 27/04/1896) and Sarah on 24/11/1835 (NLI Microfilm 02502/07 page 159). I suspect that William's parents were John Ryan and Anastasia Henessy (though I have not written down where this came from). So it looks to me that their first daughter was named after the father's mother, the first son was named after the father's father, the second son was named after the mother's father and the second daughter after the mother's mother. Not quite the usual practice with the daughters, but close enough...

There was also a Mary Vinn (~1791-1821) who married a William Ryan of Clonyharp; William remarried a Bridget Ryan in 1837; William and Bridget are buried in the cloisters at Holy Cross Abbey; this William was the major landholder in Clonyharp, including the land on wich the ruined castle stood. Then there was a Catherine Vinn who married a different William Ryan also of Clonyharp at about the same time. I am guessing that Mary and Catherine might have been cousins to Patrick Finn, but have no direct evidence.

I have not yet had time to look into the descendants of Owen Maher and Sarah Finn. I presume you are already aware that Owen's baptismal record was on the same page as Sarah's brother James (NLI Microfilm 02502/07, Page 63) and that the Maher family immigrated on 17 April 1850 on the Oriental shortly after Owen's father Lawrence died.

My wife Katrine and I visited Tipperary back in June, driving past the Finn farm, visiting St Johns in Clonoulty, driving past the Bannon farm in Barracurra, and visiting the graveyard in Ballycahill where Margaret Bannon's parents and grandparents are buried. If you would like photos, contact me directly on davelk1066.gmail.com and I will pass them on.

We also recently visited St John's Cemetery in Campbelltown where Sarah's parents (Patrick and Margaret Bannon) and several of her siblings are buried. The gravestone of Patrick and Margaret is damaged; we have arranged to see a stonemason at the cemetery next Monday to have it repaired. Again, I can provide photos if desired.

Regards

Dave

 

Hi Maree,

I forgot to ask: have you been able to work out who the youngest daughter of Patrick Finn and Margaret Bannon, namely Hanna/Nancy (1844-?) was married to? The article "Early Menangle" by J J Moloney, 1929, has her marrying a Ryan, but I have been unable to track down any appropriate records.

Dave

Hi Dave

Well that’s s wonderful lot of information! I am pleased that I can now let you know a bit of the history of Hanna/Nancy Finn. She was known as Annie and indeed married to Michael Ryan( who was the son of Richard Ryan of Srahavalla) .They ended up taking up land at Bonegilla Vic just a few miles from the farm of Sarah and Owen . One of Sarah and Anne’s brothers also took up land near there and I think that was Thomas who died around 1870’s. I do have details of Annie and Michaels children and of course Owen and Sarah and can pass on to you if you would like ( just need to dig it out first! ). I will also see if there is anything else that may be of interest to you

Maree

 

Hi Maree,

That has solved a mystery for me! I had not thought to look her up under the variant Anne or Annie. I have found index records for their marriage in 1864 (in Victoria, I wasn't expecting that) and four children, Edmond in 1871, Michael in 1872, Nancy in 1876 and Thomas in 1878. I found a photo of their gravestone in Wodonga cemetery.

The birthplace of Edmond Ryan is abbreviated as "Belv" which has me stumped. I was born in Tarrawingee, and my parents lived in Wangaratta from the 1960s onwards (apart from a few years in Echuca). So I should know North-Eastern Victoria fairly well.

I was not able to locate an appropriate baptismal record for Michael Ryan in the parish of Clonoulty (did find one in the parish of Tipperary, baptised 4 August 1831 to Richard Ryan and Mary Lonergan). I note a Richard Ryan held about 12 acres in Clonoulty at the 1851 Griffith Valuation (note that Patrick Finn is listed as Patrick Flynn, by the way). How did you know that Michael's father was Richard? It makes sense that Anne knew Michael from back in the "Old Country". All the Finn children who married did so to folk from the parish of Clonoulty or close-neighbouring parishes.

Thomas Finn is also buried in Wodonga Cemetery, which solved another mystery for me as to where he went when he left the Camden district. He died 5 July 1876 aged 34.

I have found two index records for the marriage of Owen Maher and Sarah Finn at St Marys, Sydney, one in 1853 (V1853220 99) and one in 1858 (V1858362 138). Do you know the story here? I believe the earlier date, because they started having children in 1855. It means that Patrick Finn/Margaret Banon and family wasted little time moving down from Moreton Bay, where they landed 29 April 1853, to the Camden area. I wonder if Owen and Sarah had made an agreement before the Finns emigrated?

I have found index records for 11 children born to Owen and Sarah, the first four (Ellen in 1855, Laurence in 1857, Margaret in 1859 and Mary in 1861) all born in Camden, and the remainder all born around Wodonga/Chiltern and this elusive "Belv". I have seen newspaper references to the Maher property of "Fairview" in Bonegilla, but have been unable to locate it exactly. Do you know where the actual properties where that Thomas Finn, the Ryans and the Mahers farmed?

Next time I pass through Wodonga I intend to stop in at the cemetery and locate the family graves.

Regards

Dave

 

 

 

 

Hi Dave I believe Michael and Annie had 8 children Richard Patrick Edmond Thomas Michael Margaret Johanna and Annie but I probably don’t have dates. From memory an historian from Clonoulty area I had contact with online told me Michael was son of Richard and Judith( née Ryan) from Clonoulty. I think they may have married in 1830. Belv I think may be short for  Belvoir which I think was briefly name of Wodonga. Fairview was in Mahers Rd Bonegilla( house still there) Ryan’s lived in Ryan’s Rd Bonegilla ( house still there I believe). It might take me 4 or 5 days before I can find you more information that I have. There is some on my computer and a few photos so I will prob sent to your email address if that’s ok

Regards

Maree

 

. (Family history ACT has lotsof documents from research done by Fr Brian Maher into many different Irish families from Clonoulty including family of Patrick and Margaret Finn

https://hagsoc.phoebe.opalsinfo.net/bin/search/recDetailPage?sf0=1016&kw0=Finn&sortAttr=5001&sortOrder=0&pNum=1&rid=&recRsPos=9

Just wondering if you have been there to view any of it )

 

 

Hi Maree,

I will scratch around a bit longer to see if I can locate the children of Michael and Anne that you listed.

I didn't know that Wodonga was briefly called Belvoir. I should have guessed there would be a Mahers Road and a Ryan Road in Bonegilla! (I used to play baseball there as a schoolboy, by the way.)

I would appreciate whatever photos you can share, and yes, send them to davelk1066@gmail.com

I had not heard about the library in Canberra. Have you read Fr Brian Maher's documents yourself? We might make a trip to Canberra to check out the library.

Regards

Dave