Duggans, Cashel, Tipperary

Hello Ellen,

I found the baptism record of a William Duggan who was baptized in the Cashel Catholic Parish on October 26, 1849. His father is Pat Duggan. His mother is Mary, whose maiden name is also Duggan. In addition, I uncovered the baptism records for 6 of William’s siblings, all baptized in the Cashel Catholic Parish. The names of their parents were Patrick Duggan and Mary Duggan.

The names and years of baptism for these children are:

Eliza, 1845
James, 1854
Patrick, 1856
Kate, 1859
Judy, 1862
Ambrose, 1866.
____

Only one of these children has a civil birth record. This is Ambrose. He was born after the government in Ireland instituted civil registration of births, marriages, and deaths for all religious denominations on 1 January 1864.

I’ve attached Ambrose’s civil birth record to this reply. This is a copy of the original birth record, not an index or a transcription. Parts of the birth record are difficult to read because of the handwriting. But Ambrose was born on the 20th of May 1866. His exact place of birth is difficult to read, but it appears to be “Rice’s Lot, Commons of Cashel.” His father is Patrick Duggan of Rice’s Lot, Commons of Cashel. Patrick’s occupation is Farmer. Ambrose’s mother is Mary Duggan, formerly Duggan. Patrick Duggan of the Commons of Cashel reported the birth to the local registrar, Michael Cormack, who recorded the birth in the Cashel Registration District on 25 May 1865. I’ve attached the birth record for Ambrose to this reply.

If you think the aforementioned baptisms refer to your William Duggan and his siblings, I can send you copies of the original baptisms if you’d like. It may take up to a week to compile all the baptisms and describe them in narrative form, as some of the baptisms can be difficult to read.

Kind Regards,

Dave Boylan

Hello Ellen,

As a follow-up to my previous reply I have since learned that the name of the location in the Commons of Cashel where Ambrose Duggan was born, is actually Price's Lot, rather than Rices's Lot. I came to this conclusion after finding a Patrick "Doogan" leasing property near a John Doogan in Price's Lot, Cashel. This information comes from an Irish property tax record known as Griffiths Valuation. Griffiths Valuation took place in the 32 counties of Ireland between 1847 and 1864. The valuation for Cashel, Tipperary was completed by the year 1850.

Unlike a census, Griffiths Valuation did not enumerate individual members of a family, such as husband, wife, and children in a household residence. Those named in the valuation were individuals who leased property. Each person who paid to lease the property was called an “Occupier.” The other person listed in Griffiths Valuation was the person who owned the property, or who worked as the middleman for the owner. This person was called the “Immediate Lessor.”

You can access Griffiths Valuation transcriptions and original copies for free at the askaboutireland website link at: http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml

I believe the Griffiths Valuation entry for Patrick Doogan leasing property in Price’s Lot, Cashel, is actually Patrick Duggan, father of Ambrose and the other Duggan children named in the last reply. John may be his brother, or a cousin, or perhaps his father. Griffiths Valuation does not give relationships between people with the same surnames leasing property near each other.

Thank You.

Dave Boylan

Hello Dave,

Thank you so much for your prompt reply ! I do have that information on Ambrose. I also know that Kate Duggan Devitt was born in 1851, according to records found on Ancestry. She and her husband Michael Devitt are buried at The Rock in Cashel, as is Ambrose and his wife Hanora Egan. Kate died in 1896 according to the death info.My grandfather was also Ambrose Duggan, born in NY city in 1892. William's children were all born in NY city, Patrick, Mary, William, Johanna, Ambrose and John.

William married Anastasia Gallagher in New York city in 1884.What is confusing is the birth information you have found for William. According to his death certificate, he was 82 when he died in 1938, however, often death information is only as good as the person giving the information to the attending doctor at time of death. If William was born in 1849, he would have been 89 when he died. My late mother used to say that her grandfather William was quite old when he died. My mother also said that William's and Anastasia's sons wer named after William's brothers, although there is no John. I do know that very often, the Irish name the first born son or daughter after their parent's father or mother.

I also had assumed that William's mother Mary was also a Duggan, that is the name listed I've seen on Kate and Ambrose's birth information. I have looked at Griffith's Valuation in the past, without much luck, but thank you for researching that.

I truly appreciate what you have found and would love it if you could provide me with any birth or baptism information. Please advise me if you want my e mail address. I also have Keenans and Sweeneys from Fintona, Tyrone, Welsh's from Bracknagh, Offaly, and Byrne's , right now I can't remember what county they were from, so in future I will be looking for information on those families.

Warm regards,

Ellen

Hello Dave,

If you can let me know if you will be ale to send the birth information on William Duggan and his siblings I would greatly appreciate it. The dates of birth for Kate and William do not seem to correspond to the records I have.

 

Thank you for your help.

 

Ellen

Hello Ellen,

Thank you for responding. I'll start compiling the records this weekend and get them to you as soon as possible. You'll be able to access the baptism records through links to the National Library of Ireland. Concerning Ambrose, I'll send his birth certificate as an attachment in the next reply.

Kind Regards,

Dave

Hi Dave,

Thank you. There is a confusing date for Catherine, or Kate, Duggan. I have a record of her marriage to Michael Devitt in 1871 in Cashel, and a record of her death in Cashel in 1896. If she was born in 1859 and married in 1871 , she would have been 12 years old at the time of her marriage, if born in 1859. On her tombstone, it states aged 43 at time of death.

The record I have found for her baptism  is 1851. I will check again but I'm sure it was 1851 or 1853, the marriage record shows Michael Devitt aged 23 and Catherine Duggan aged 20, which would be correct if she was born in 1851.

Let me know what you find.

 

Thank you !

Ellen

 

 

Hello Ellen,

I can see the confusion about Catherine Duggan Devitt between her year of birth that I found (1859) and her marriage to Michael Devitt in 1871. She of course, as you’ve noted, would have been too young to marry at the age of 12.

The 1859 baptism record I found for “Kate” may be questionable, as she is named in the baptism register on one line, while the parents, or supposed parents, are named on the line below her. I’ve transcribed below what her baptism entry looks like in the Cashel baptism register:

25 Kate of
of Pat Duggan & Mary Duggan. Sp John Duggan & Ellen Connors
____

The Sp stands for Sponsors, meaning godparents.

Kate Duggan was baptized on what appears to be 25 July 1859. There are two facing pages of the baptism register. The entry for Kate is the 4th line up from the bottom of the left-hand baptism register page which you can access at: https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632681#page/258/mode/1up

It may take you some time to find the baptism because of the condition of the page, but you can enlarge the page by means of round icons in the upper center/ right of the screen. The icons are white with green backgrounds. You can also access the full-screen function by clicking on the last icon on the right with the two arrows pointing northeast and southwest.

Once the page downloads you’ll notice the page is torn in the left corner, just below Kate’s name.

With the latest information you provided, I can’t tell if the Duggan family I located in the Cashel baptism registers is the Duggan family in your line. But, if you know for sure that say, Ambrose Duggan was indeed your great grandfather William’s brother, then this is ostensibly the correct family, even though there is some confusion about the birth and marriage years of Catherine or Kate Duggan, and even though William’s age at death doesn’t match up with the year of his baptism (1849) in the Cashel baptism registers..

I found what may be the information you mentioned about Kate Duggan at Ancestry.com. This was submitted by carolwilby1 in her Wilby/Lock/Penney/Salkeld/Craven/Sims/Springett Familt Tree. Below is the entry for Catherine (Kate) Duggan from that Family Tree:

Catherine (Kate) Duggan

1851–1896

“When Catherine (Kate) Duggan was born in 1851 in Cashel, Tipperary, Ireland, her father, Patrick, was 21, and her mother, Mary, was 20. She married Michael Devitt on July 3, 1871, in her hometown. They had ten children in 20 years. She died on May 17, 1896, in Camas, Idaho, at the age of 45, and was buried in Cashel, Tipperary, Ireland.”
____

You’ll notice there is no source information for the year of Kate’s baptism. She will not have a civil birth record as civil registration of births, marriages, and deaths for all religious denominations didn’t commence in Ireland until 1864. Also, I searched the Cashel baptism records for 1850, 1851, and 1852 at the National Archives of Ireland website, but didn’t find the baptism for a Catherine or Kate Duggan in any of those three years. This search took a while to do going page by page over the three successive years as many pages in the baptism registers for these years are difficult to read in spots because the handwriting is not very legible, while other areas of the registers are too dark to read because the images do not appear to have been properly lighted.

Just to recap the names and years of birth for the Duggan children that I found are:

Eliza, 1845
William, 1849
James, 1854
Patrick, 1856
Kate?, 1859
Judy, 1862
Ambrose, 1866
____

I originally found the baptism transcriptions for each of the Duggan children at the Find My Past website, including Kate’s baptism.

Find My Past has transcribed Irish Catholic Church baptisms, marriages, and burials for all 32 counties for much of the 19th century, and even records from portions of the 18th century. You can access these for free. For example, you can search for baptism transcriptions at the FMP search engine at:
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-records/ireland-roman-catho…

To search for Catholic marriages transcriptions at FMP, go to:
http://search.findmypast.com/search-world-Records/ireland-roman-catholi…

The FMP burial transcription search engine can be accessed at:
http://search.findmypast.com/search-world-Records/ireland-roman-catholi…

Attached to the baptism, marriage, and burial transcriptions at FMP are copies of the original records held by the National Library of Ireland (NLI).

To complete the search for transcriptions you’ll have to register with FMP. Registration is free as is access to the transcriptions.

I have not included the Duggan baptism transcriptions in this reply, as they are under copyright and take up a lot of room. Instead, I’ve gone directly to the National Library of Ireland links to access the baptism records.

ELIZA DUGGAN

Eliza Duggan was baptized in the Cashel Catholic Church on March 25, 1845. Her parents are Pat Duggan and Mary Duggan. The baptism record is very difficult to read because of the handwriting and because it is very dark, but one of Eliza’s godparents who would be her godfather has the last name of Gleason. I couldn’t make out his first name. Eliza’s godmother appears to be Cath Brien, but I could be wrong about her last name. The residence of the Duggan family is also included in the baptism record and appears to be “Commons,” which may refer the Commons of Cashel, Tipperary.

Eliza’s baptism record is on the right-hand baptism register page, 2nd entry up from the bottom. The baptism register can be accessed at: https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632681#page/105/mode/1up

WILLIAM DUGGAN

As mentioned in the first reply William Duggan was baptized on October 26, 1849. His father is Pat Duggan and his mother Mary Duggan. His godfather is Darby Connors. The first name of his godmother is Judith, but I couldn’t make out her last name. The writing on this baptism register entry is also difficult to read. William’s baptism is on the right-hand baptism register page, 3rd entry down from the top at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000632681#page/178/mode/1up

William’s first name in the baptism register is abbreviated as “Wm.”

JAMES DUGGAN

James Duggan was baptized on 30 July 1854. His baptism entry is the last on the right-hand baptism register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000632681#page/223/mode/1up

His baptism is very difficult to read. His godfather appears to be James Duggan. The first name of his godmother may be Mary. I couldn’t make out her last name. Aside from the handwriting, part of the problem with this baptism register page is that it is too dark. I increased the brightness of the page but still couldn’t improve the quality.

PATRICK DUGGAN

Patrick Duggan was baptized on 16 November 1856. His parents are Patrick Duggan and Mary Duggan, residing in the “Commons.” The godparents are Michael and Ellen Duggan. Patrick’s baptism is on the right-hand baptism register page, 4th entry down from the top of the baptism register page at: https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632681#page/245/mode/1up.

Patrick’s baptism page is very easy to read because the page has sufficient brightness to it.

Kate Duggan or if not Kate, another Duggan child, was baptized after Patrick in 1859, as noted earlier.

JUDY DUGGAN

Judy Duggan was born on 3 April 1862. Her father is Patt Duggan. Her mother is Mary Duggan. The name of her godfather appears to be John Morrissey, but I could be wrong about that. The name of her godmother looks like Ellen Mullens. Judy’s baptism is on the right-hand baptism register page at: https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632681#page/269/mode/1up

Once at the page scroll down to the heading that states April (1862). Judy’s baptism is the 4th entry after the April (1862) heading. The writing on this register can be difficult to decipher.

AMBROSE DUGGAN

Ambrose Duggan was born 20 May 1866. This date of birth comes from the birth record I had sent you Ellen, not from his baptism record, because you cannot read the date of birth in the baptism register. His baptism is the last entry on the left-hand baptism register page at: https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632682#page/8/mode/1up

The page is very dark and hard to read. You can read that his father is Patrick Duggan. His mother is Mary Duggan. The first name of Ambrose’s godfather appears to be Michael. I couldn’t really make out his last name. The first name of his godmother looks like Mary. Her last name is Burke. I had to enlarge this entry a little to read it.

THE MARRIAGE OF PATRICK DUGGAN AND MARY DUGGAN

I found the marriage transcription for Patrick Duggan and Mary Duggan at the Find My Past website, which shows the couple were married in Cashel on 19 February 1844. Linked to the transcription is the original marriage record held by the National Library of Ireland. You can access the marriage record at:
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632680#page/72/mode/1up

The marriage is located the 4th entry down from the top of the left-hand marriage register page. The marriage entry can be difficult to read and I couldn’t make out all the words, but what I could decipher is the following:

“Patrick Duggan & Mary Duggan dispensed by his Grace Most Revd Dr Mallery? in 3 + 3 consanguinatatis gradu? in 4 + 4 were joined in marriage by me ? Witnesses Salmond Gleeson and Cath Breen daughter of ? Breen, all inhabitants of the Commons of Cashel. Signed JM D”
____

The marriage entry uses the word “dispensed,” which means that the banns of marriage for three successive Sundays before the marriage were not announced in church, as Catholic tradition holds. The dispensation may have come from the bishop or even the local parish priest if the bishop could not be reached.

The 3 + 3 Consanquinatatis, that is, consanguinity, means that Patrick and Mary were related by blood. The 4 + 4 probably refers to Patrick and Mary being First Cousins.

Do you think the baptisms you see in this reply refer to your William, his siblings, and his parents? I can’t say with 100 percent certainty, but it may be that they do.

Best of Luck Ellen.

Dave

Dave, Thank you so very much for all your time and effort researching this for me.

Briefly, several years ago after submitting DNA tests to several sites, i.e Ancestry, My Heritage, FTDNA, several 3rd-4th cousin matches contacted me. There are 2 great grandaughters of Michael and Kate Duggan Devitt , we match quite highly, and we agreed that it seemed that Kate Duggan could be a sibling of my William. Both of these matches lives in England but one has been to Cashel several times and to the house that Michael and Kate lived in, where there still is a portrait of them.

I have the marriage certificate for William, my gr, grandfather, from 1884 in NY city, where it states he was from Tipperary and his parents were Patrick and Mary, maiden name Duggan. All the records for Kate and Michael Devitt's marriage that these "cousins" I matched up to have, state The Commons or Price's Lot.as the location in Cashel.

In an article from a newspaper called The Nationalist, dated 27 May, 2017, the story is about the descendants of Michael and Kate Duggan Devitt, commerating the 100th anniversary of Michael's death in 1917. There is a photo of the headstone and the story states that Kate died in 1896 at the age of 43, leaving 7 children and her husband Michael Devitt. It further states that Kate Duggan's family came from The Commons, and that she and Micahel and their 7 children lived at Lowergate Street in Cashel.

The other item of note was that I was told by family  years ago that William's named his sons after his brothers and his father and himself, they were Patrick, William, Ambrose and John. (No James)

I used to have a paid subscription to FInd My Past, I did not know I could view the records you mentioned for free. I will continue to search that site and perhaps join the Cashel Tipperary community page here on Ireland XO to see what more I can find out.

Many, many thanks for all your hard work and time.

Best wishes,

Ellen

Hello Ellen,

Based on the information you posted in your last communication, I found copies of the original death certificates for Catherine and Michael Devitt at the irishgenealogy.ie website.

First, the death record for Catherine.

Her death record shows that she died on 17 May 1896. Her place of death was Camas Road, Cashel. At the time of death she was 43 years old and married. The cause of death, if I read it correctly, was, “Cerebritis Coma. Certified.” The person who was present at her death and who reported her death to the local registrar was her son, Thomas, who also resided in the Camas Road, Cashel. The local registrar, R. Cusack, recorded Catherine’s death in the Cashel Registration District on 19 June 1896. Catherine’s death is the second entry down from the top of the death register page at No. 94.

The death record shows that Catherine’s residence at the time of death was the Camas Road. For a Google Map “Camus” Road, Cashel, Tipperary, see: https://is.gd/19mECL

For a Google Street View of Camus Road and the Rock of Cashel: https://is.gd/kHU1ew

For another Google Street View, Camas Road, Cashel, Tipperary: https://is.gd/lpEzUq

I believe the actual spelling of this road is Camas as found in the death record, rather than Camus as found in the Google Map and Street View.

By the 1901 census, 26 year old Thomas, his 54 year old father Michael, a cattle dealer and widower, and six other children of Michael Devitt were living in an address of house 3, Loughnafina, Lowergate Street, Cashel. This confirms the information you have that Michael Devitt had resided in Lowergate Street, though just a few years before he was probably living in the Camas Road, where his wife died and where his son Thomas had lived.

I’ve transcribed the 1901 census below. The census comes from the National Archives of Ireland at: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

1901 Census of Ireland

Residents of a house 3 in Loughnafina: Lowergate St. (Cashel Urban, Tipperary)

Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy
Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses

Devitt Michael 54 Male Head of Family Catholic Co Tippry Cattle Dealer Read and write English Widower
Devitt P J 28 Male Son Catholic Co Tippry Cattle Dealer Read and write English Not Married
Devitt Thos 26 Male Son Catholic Co Tippry Cattle Dealer Read and write Not Married
Devitt John 23 Male Son Catholic Co Tippry Cattle Dealer Read and write Not Married
Devitt Mary 18 Female Daughter Catholic Co Tippry Read and write Not Married
Devitt Michael 15 Male Son Catholic Co Tippry Scholar Read and write Not Married
Devitt Kathleen 10 Female Daughter Catholic Co Tippry Scholar Read and write Not Married
Devitt Haddie 8 Female Daughter Catholic Co Tippry Scholar Not Married
____

You can view a copy of the original 1901 census for the Devitt family bat the following National Archives of Ireland link: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003893176/

For a Google Map showing the Loughnafina section of Cashel, where Lowergate Street and the Camas Road are situated, go to: https://is.gd/Bz0tze

Next, the 1911 census shows the Devitt family living at house 23, Lowergate Street, Cashel. The household includes 64 year old cattle dealer and widower Michael Devitt, his 35 year old son Thomas, 33 year old son John, 25 year old son Michael, 19 year old daughter Hannah, and the older Michael Devitt’s granddaughter, 6 year old Kitty. Kitty would have been the daughter of one of Michael Devitt’s daughters whose married name is Connors, but who is not in the household with the rest of the family. The 1911 census transcription is below:

1911 Census of Ireland

Residents of a house 23 in Lowergate Street (Cashel Urban, Tipperary)

Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy
Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living

Devitt Michael 64 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Cattle Dealer Read and write Widower
Devitt Thomas 35 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Cattle Dealer Read and write Single
Devitt John 33 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Cattle Dealer Read and write Single
Devitt Michael 25 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Cattle Dealer Read and write Single
Devitt Hannah Maria 19 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Read and write Single
Connors Kitty 6 Female Grand Daughter Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Scholar Read and write Single
____

To view the Devitt family in a copy of the original 1911 Census of Ireland, go to the National Archives of Ireland link at: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003376293/

The next search involved looking for the civil birth record for Kitty Connors. Kitty is the nickname for Catherine, and so I actually looked for the birth record of a Catherine Connors, daughter of a fellow whose last name was Connors and a mother whose last name was Devitt. I found the birth record for Catherine Josephine “O’Connor,” who was born on 18 March 1904. Her place of birth is recorded as “Green, Cashel,” which I take to be “The Green,” a street in Cashel Town. Catherine’s father is Bernard O’Connor residing in the Green, Cashel. His occupation is cattle dealer. Catherine’s mother is Mary O’Connor, formerly Devitt. Bernard reported Catherine’s birth to the local registrar, R. Cusack, who recorded the birth in the Cashel Registration District on 28 March 1904. I’ve attached Catherine’s birth record to this reply. Hers is the first birth recorded in the register at No. 130.

If you look at the 7 other births on the birth register page where Catherine is recorded, you’ll see that all the children were born in the “Workhouse Cashel.”

If you go back to the 1901 census you’ll see that in the household with her father and siblings is 18 year old Mary Devitt. She would be Catherine’s mother.

I now wanted to see if I could find the marriage record for Bernard O’Connor and Mary Devitt at the irishgenealogy.ie website. I located the marriage record showing that Bernard “Connors” and Mary Devitt were married in the Roman Catholic Chapel of Cashel on September 23, 1903. At the time of the marriage Bernard was 22 and Mary 20. Bernard is listed as a bachelor before marriage while Mary was a spinster before she married. Bernard’s occupation is Cattle Dealer. Mary is recorded as being the “Daughter of Cattle Dealer.” The residence of Bernard and Mary at the time of marriage was Cashel. Bernard’s father is James Connors, employed as a cattle dealer. Mary’s father Michael Devitt is also employed as a cattle dealer. The parish priest who married the couple was P. W. Ryan. The witnesses to the marriage were Joseph Connors and Kathleen Devitt. The registrar, R. Cusack, recorded the marriage in the Cashel Registration District on 23 September 1903. The marriage is the third entry on the marriage register page at No. 162. The marriage record is attached to this reply. If you go back to the birth record for Bernard and Mary’s daughter Catherine, you’ll see that Catherine was born on 18 March 1904. Her parents were married on September 23, 1903, just 6 months earlier. This means that Bernard and Mary had married when they did so that their child would not be born out of wedlock.

Going to the 1911 Census of Ireland you’ll see that 29 year old cattle dealer Bernard O’Connor, his 27 year old wife Mary, and their 6 children were living in an address of house 14, The Green, Cashel. One of the children in the household is their oldest child, 7 year old Catherine. This Catherine would actually be the Kitty Connors who was visiting her grandfather Michael Devitt in Lowergate Street, also in the 1911 census. This means that Kitty/Catherine Connors/O’Connor are one and the same person even though her age differs by one year in the 1911 census returns for each family in Cashel.

On the line for Mary O’Connor in the 1911 census you’ll see the numbers 7, 6, 6. These signify that Bernard and Mary as of 1911, had been married for 7 years and that in that time had 6 children, with 6 of the children still living, the youngest being Alice, who is under 1 month old. Also in the household is a 20 year old general domestic servant, Johanna Carry.

The 1911 census transcription below is from the National Archives of Ireland:

1911 Census of Ireland

Residents of a house 14 in The Green (Cashel Urban, Tipperary)

Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy
Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living

O'Connor Bernard 29 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Cattle Dealer Read and write Married
O'Connor Mary 27 Female Wife Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Read and write Married 7 6 6
O'Connor Catherine 7 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Scholar Read Single
O'Connor Johanna 6 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Scholar Cannot read Single
O'Connor Mary 4 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Scholar Cannot read Single
O'Connor Bridget 3 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Scholar Cannot read Single
O'Connor James 2 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Cannot read Single
O'Connor Alice Under Month Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Cannot read Single
Carry Johanna 20 Female Servant Roman Catholic Co Tipperary General Servant Domestic
Read and write Single
____

To view a copy of the original 1911 census of the O’Connor family, go to the following National Archives of Ireland link at: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003375826/

To view a road called The Green in Cashel, go to: https://is.gd/UbjEuJ

For a map of The Green from the buildingsofireland.ie website, go to: http://webgis.buildingsofireland.ie/HistoricEnvironment/?REG_NO=22105081

Ellen in your last reply you provided information from a newspaper called The Nationalist, dated 27 May 2017, that Michael Devitt had died in 1917. With the year of his death I looked for his death record at the irishgenelaoyg.ie website and found it. The record shows that Michael died on 4 May 1917 in Lowergate, Cashel. At the time of death he was a 70 year old widower who had been employed as a Cattle Dealer. The cause of death was, “Carcinoma of Colon. Heart Failure. Certified.” Present at the death was Michael’s son Patrick of Lowergate, Cashel. The local Registrar, R. Cusack, recorded the death in the Cashel Registration District on 5 May 1917. The death record for Michael is No. 67 in the register. I’ve attached the death record to this reply.

After finding Michael Devitt’s death cert I went to Ancestry.com to see what further information I could uncover there. The first record I located comes from a collection called, “Ireland, Calendar of Willis and Administrations, 1858-1920. This record shows that the “Probate of the Will of Michael Devitt late of Lower Gate Cashel County Tipperary Cattle Dealer J.P. who died 4 May 1917…” was, “granted at Waterford to Daniel Devitt Farmer and Francis Shortiss Cattle Dealer Effects £3,638 5s. 8d.” In other words, Michael Devitt left in his will a total of 3,368 Pounds, 5 Shillings, and 8 Pence. You can view this record at: https://is.gd/6ROY06

There are two facing pages to the Calendar of Wills. The entry for Michael Devitt is the second entry down from the top of the right-hand page. The first entry just above Michael is for a John Devitt of Hore Abbey, Cashel, who died 16 May 1917. John was probably related to Michael, as he too was a cattle dealer with the same last name.

But, who was Daniel Devitt? Could he be Michael’s son? The 1901 and the 1911 census returns for Michael Devitt and his family do not show the presence of a Daniel Devitt in the household. I’ll have more on this later, but first I also located the gravestone of Michael Devitt, his wife Catherine, their son Michael, as well as Ambrose Duggan and his wife Hanora Duggan at the Find A Grave website. They are all buried at the Rock of Cashel. You can view the gravestone at the Find A Grave website page at: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/171082834

Next, I did find that Michael Devitt and Catherine Duggan had a son named Daniel born in 1879, but also found that Daniel died at age 6 in 1885. I suspect the person in the probate record above is Michael’s brother, Daniel.

I now wanted to see if I could find both the church marriage record as well as the civil marriage record for Michael Devitt and Catherine Duggan. I first looked for the church marriage transcription at the Find My Past website and found it. The transcription included a link to a copy of the original church marriage record held the National Library of Ireland. The marriage of Michael Devitt and Catherine Duggan took place on 30 July 1871 in the Cashel Catholic Church. The address of Michael and Catherine is “The Commons.” The name of one of the witnesses to the marriage was Joseph Gleason. The name of the second witness appears to be Catherine Henessy, but I could be wrong about her last name. The name of the priest who marriage Michael and Catherine was W. Quirke. The marriage record is located on the left-hand marriage register page, 4th entry down from the top at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000632680#page/140/mode/1up

I next looked for and found the civil marriage record for Michael Devitt and Catherine Duggan at the irishgenealogy.ie website. The civil marriage record however differs in the date that the marriage took place from the church marriage record. The civil marriage record date is 3 July 1871 while the church marriage is 30 July. The couple were married in the Roman Catholic Chapel of Cashel. At the time of the marriage Michael was 23 years old while Catherine was 20 years old. Michael is listed as a bachelor before marriage while Catherine was a spinster. Michael’s occupation was labourer. Catherine’s occupation was servant. Michael’s father is Thomas Devitt who was still living at the time the marriage took place. His occupation is not recorded. Catherine’s father is Patrick Duggan who was also still living. His occupation was not recorded. The name of the parish priest who performed the marriage ceremony was Wm Quirke P.P. The marriage was recorded in the Cashel Registration District. The marriage record is attached to this reply.

Along with the attachment of the 1871 civil marriage record of Michael Devitt and Catherine Duggan are attachment s for:

Catherine Devitt’s 1896 death record
Catherine Josephine O’Connor’s 1904 birth record
Mary Devitt’s marriage to Bernard O’Connor in 1903
Michael Devitt’s 1917 death record
____

Kind Regards Ellen,

Dave

Hello Dave,

What a huge amount of research you compiled, thank you so very much ! I did have some of this information already, apologies for not telling you sooner.

I also forgot to tell you that Michael and Catherine Duggan Devitt had another daughter, born 18, Sep, 1881. Her name was Aice Mary Devitt. When the census was taken in 1901, for some reason Alice was away at a school in Birmingham, England. In 1903, she eloped with a Christopher O'Shea, came to New York, married, and returned to Ireland several years later, settling in Dublin. Alice died young young, at 48, in 1929 in Dublin. I learned this information from one of the very high DNA matches I have on Ancestry, who is the great grandaughter of Alice Devitt O'Shea.

My main reason for all this research is to confirm that Catherine was indeed my great grandfather William's sister. Two of the DNA matches of several Duggan matches are very high, the 2 women that both live in England now but were born in Ireland, and are great grand children of Catherine and Michael Devitt, one through Alice Devitt O'Shea and one through one of the Devitt sons.

The birth record I have for Catherine Duggan, which I think I found at irish geneaology site, or theNatl. Library site, shows Catherine, or Kate, in 1853, to Patt Duggan and  what is transcribed as what looks like Mary Booden, in Cashel. It's very dark and difficult to read. This date would correspond with Catherine's marriage in 1871 at age 20, and death in 1896 at age 43.

If tradition stands on naming first born sons after the father's father, and first born daughters after the mother's mother, it seems in my family that was the case. William Duggan's first son was Patrick, which was William's father's name and William's wife, Anastasia Gallagher's father's name. Both William and Anastasia's mothers were Mary, and William's first daughter was Mary. Then the second son was William, the next daughter was Johanna (Hannah), then Ambrose, then John.

Do you think it would be helpful if I posted on the Ireland XO community page for Tipperary and asked if there any descendants still in Cashel from this family ? In the article about Michael Devitt from the Nationalist newspaper, there is a photo of Devitt descendants , the article speaks about Michael Devitt, recoginizing his life and contributions to local politics and social causes.

Thank you again for all your hard work and time in researching this.

 

Kind regards,

Ellen

 

You’re welcome Ellen.

I don’t think you have anything to lose by posting a query about the Duggans on the Ireland XO Community Page. Hopefully you’ll get a response. I accessed the free online Eircom Phone Book to see if any Duggans were listed in Cashel, but found no listings. This doesn’t mean there are no Duggans in Cashel. It may be that any Duggans still living in or around Cashel are “ex-directory,” as the Irish say. That is, the Duggans in Cashel may have unlisted phone numbers, or they may have cell phones that aren't listed in a directory.

You are to be commended for all the research you’ve done into your family history. It can become an addiction, but a good addiction, I think. Keep up the good work Ellen.

If you learn anything new please keep me informed.

With Kind Regards,

Dave

Thank you Dave, I will be in touch. A thousand thanks for all your work !

 

Best wishes,

Ellen

You're welcome Ellen.

Dave

Hi Dave Pat (Dave Bylan) and Ellen N. I just joined this group IrelandXO and believe based on the tremendous work that Dave performed that Ellen and I share the same great grandfather Micheal “The Chairman” Devitt. I would love to connect with Ellen N to investigate this further.

John Devitt

Hello John !

What a nice surprise to see your post this evening !  Six years ago I had the DNA test done through Ancestry and matched as 3rd-4th cousins to 2 women who are also descended from Michael Devitt and Kate Duggan Devitt. Based on 6  years of trying to figure out how we are connected, we think that my great grandfather, William Duggan, and Kate Duggan Devitt were siblings. They were both born in Cashel to Patrick and Mary Duggan. It appears that Patrick and Mary's last child was named Ambrose and if Irish naming traditions were followed at the time, William Duggan, my great grandfather, named his first son Patrick,after his father, his second son William, after himself, and his third son, my grandfather, Ambrose.

These 2 women and I still correspond via e mail, they were both born in Ireland but live in England. They are both great granddaughters of Kate & Michael Devitt. They don't have much more information than I do but after many years of genealogical research I have learned that a 3rd- 4th cousin match  on the various ancestry sites, like Ancestry, My Heritage, Family Tree DNA and Gedmatch, indicates that the match means our great, or great, great grandparents were siblings.

I would love to hear from you and if you want to, you can contact me directly at my personal e mail, eastsidekid@verizon.net

Hope to hear from you soon, looking forward to it !

 

Warm regards,

Ellen N