Duffys/Wards from Drombrone

Hi, my grandfather's family surname Duffy is also on the 1911 census for Monaghan > Drumcarrow > Drumbrone. (sometimes spelled Drumbroan or Drumbrawn btw!) It is the other large Duffy family headed by Brian and Mary (their form was filled out in Gaeilge if you look on the National Archives site.)

My Duffys are no longer there; all emigrated to New York. However, my family has been back and talked to the old next door neighbors who are also Duffys. There were two main Duffy families in Drumbrone and they were not related. Which makes research confusing. :-) I will ask my parents tommorrow more about the other Duffy family. There was a woman there from that family who showed my parents around and gave them a lot of info.

Other things I know.... Magheracloone has two churches, Maghercloone Upper and Maghercloone Lower. My Duffys from Drumbrone went to and are buried at the lower church (St. Paul / St. Peter.) I am pretty sure my grandfather and his siblings went to NS Ballynagearn for school so maybe your Duffys did too.

I have the book "The Hills of Maghercloone" which has pictures from the time period your Bridget was there. I will look and see if I see her.

Sorry to take so long to follow up; I believe there is a picture of her in the book!!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/152yoiUDv2pNFeTawXtWHSvS5Vm8_dt5W/view?…

~m

Hi Máirín, 

Glad to hear from you. Mary Anne, Alice and Ellen all came to New York as well. Bernard ended up moving to South Caroline, while Patrick moved to London. Bridget ended up in Co. Clare. I wonder who the Duffy you talked to was, as I didn't think many were left. I'd love to hear and learn more about the area. Was it possible to search for the graves online or did you have to find it yourself? I go back every year but stay down in Clare and Kerry as my father is from Kerry and my mother, Clare.

Best, 

Sean 

Hi Sean!

I'm very glad to hear from you. I believe the Duffy who helped my parents was Teresa Duffy, and their family was descended from Hugh Duffy, and they live on Drumbrone Rd. I did find the photos from my parents' trip (in the 2000's). I'll be back home next week and can try to send pictures.

I dont know if the Magheracloone Lower cemetary is online anywhere. My info on that front is from one family trip in 2004.

If it helps.... I've traced my Duffys back to Michael Duffy - an Irish speaker - born sometime around 1837, married Bridget Murry, had at least the following 3 children: Bernard b. 1873 married Mary Anne Hand, Bridget b. 1876 married Edward Cassidy, Margaret b. 1879. If we are more closely related it could be via a sibling in this family (Bernard or Michael could have had brothers I dont know about).

I hope this helps, lets keep in touch.

~m

(It looks more likely based on your records posted at the top of the thread that perhaps your Patrick Sr. is a sibling or cousin of my Michael. FWIW!)

Sorry to spam.... so I looked at Griffith's valuation for Drumbrone in ~1861 and found my Michael Duffy, and your Patrick (Patrick Jr.), and a Patrick Senior. There's other Duffys too - Thomas, Anne, and John. They are all the named land tenants.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aRbXJgBKzuyP35BEsakCRsBJxFhKGHJl/view?…

Hi, 

So I looked over my family tree and saw that Patrick Senior had at least 2 brothers. Peter Duffy b. 1821 married to Mary McDermott with at least 10; Ann Duffy (Lee), Kathleen Duffy (Martin),  Thomas Duffy b. 1853, Lawernce Duffy (Annie Martin), Mary Duffy, Kate Duffy, Peter Duffy, James Duffy and Bridget Duffy. The second brother is Edward Duffy b. 1828 married to Catherine Hand with five kids, Thomas Duffy, James Duffy, Ann Duffy, Peter Duffy, and Lawrence Duffy (Maire Ann Murray). 

As in regards to your findings in 1861. That Patrick Jr, has to be my Patrick's father because was born after 1861. So Patrick Senior has to be my Patrick's grandfather. 

Let me know if this helps!

- Sean

Hi Sean,

Just looking around trying to see if there's a connection or not - I looked around records for Patrick Duffys reported at the Carrickmacross registry, which is the correct one for Drumbrone, who would be of the right era of either of the Patrick Duffy's we're looking at. I went through record after record and found some death records for Patrick Duffy of Drumbrone. Maybe you've already seen them?

Patrick Duffy b. ~1822
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…
Patrick Duffy, died age 62 in 1884. Farmer, married, son Peter Duffy present at death. Father and son from Drumbrone.

Patrick Duffy b. ~1832
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…
Patrick Duffy, died age 47 in 1879. Farmer, married, Peter Duffy present at death (not listed as son.) Both listed as from Drumbrone.

With only 10 years between them, they can't be father an son. But they are both Patrick Duffys from the same road. Interesting food for thought, right?

~m

Some more Drumbrone Duffys. I went through every single Duffy death record filed in the 1800s at Carrickmacross for which the images are available at https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie

Thomas Duffy b. ~1869, d. age 25 in 1894
Drumbrawn (alternative spelling for Drumbrone)
Mother Ellen Duffy present
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

Sarah Duffy b. ~1817
Drumbrone
Son Hugh Duffy present
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

Bridget Duffy b. ~1841
Drumbrone
Wife of Peter Duffy
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

Margaret Duffy b. ~1843
Drumbrone
Wife of James Duffy, a shoemaker
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…
^^
Potential relation, Mary Duffy b. 1881, d. 1881, daughter of James Duffy a shoemaker
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

Bridget Duffy b. ~1810
From Drumbrone, servant
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

Anne Duffy b. ~1802 d. age 82 in 1884
Drumbrone
Widow of Bernard Duffy a farmer, son Michael Duffy of Drumbrone
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

Could this be Peter's son Thomas or Edward's son Thomas?

Sean, I think I found a record with Patrick Sr. and Ellen Boylan. Birth of Thomas Duffy. Birth records Ive found are useful in that sometimes inlaws are the witnesses :-) Thomas' birth was witnessed by Jane Boylan, I think Ellen's mom. See this record:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

Here's another one:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

And another:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

another one:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

Hi Sean,

Dont know if youre still around. I found some of the notes my father took down from talking w Teresa Duffy. I think she may be related to you through James Duffy, Edward Duffy's son. Please email me for more info as this is a public forum.

~m

Hi Sean, don't know if you're still around but I came across this today and think it's your kin. https://i.imgur.com/Rq8DxNJ.jpg

Hey does anyone still use this forum? I think I'm related to you guys and have a lot of new information to share. 

Hi @JackAttack, I'd be delighted to talk with you. I am still around. I've found out heaps more since I last posted here.

I live in the United States. I highly recommend using Familysearch.org to help you build your family tree, since it is completely free and has a ton of information that ancestry.com or myheritage won't give you for free. My mother's entire family is from Ireland. I am trying to find out more about the 4 families of my Irish great grandparents- the Duffys from County Monaghan, The Cunninghams from County Louth, The Nestors from County Mayo, and the Finns from County Mayo. My great grandmother was Ellen Duffy from the big Duffy family talked about on the first post of this forum. She was born on December 15,1905, the eldest girl. She came to New York, and on April 21,1935 married a man named Joseph Cunningham from Dunleer/Painestown, Dromin, in County Louth. She had 6 children including my grandmother (2 of those children unforntunately died extremly young, named Ellen and Joseph after their parents), and 11 grandchildren including my mother, aunt, and uncle. She passed away from heart failure on December 2, 1989, in New York. In her obituary, it says Bernard, Patrick, MaryAnne, and Bridget all died before her, and the only one still alive was Alice. Alice married a man with the last name Gartlan and briefly lived in Hawaii, MaryAnne married a man with the last name Dougherty, and Bridget married a man with the last name McNamara. Bridget died on October 5,1973 in Kildysart, in County Clare. I am positive that I found her grave: (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/209726140/bridget-mcnamara) My grandmother told me that Ellen had a cousin named Alice Martin. Her maiden name was Ward, which means Alice's father was a sibling of Kate Ward. She was born in 1890 and died on January 19,1965 in Camaghy, Megheracloone, in Carrickmacross, County Monaghan. I am almost certain she married someone neamed Micheal Martin. Patrick Duffy (father of the six children) died on October 4,1948 in Carrickmacross. I have the small prayer cards that you get at funerals for Patrick and Alice Martin, as well as Ellen. I will send pictures of them as soon as I get back to my grandmothers house. I have found quite a few inconsistencies with census records, which are very confusing. In the Irish census taken on April 2, 1911, it says Patrick is 39 which led me to believe he was born in early 1872 or late 1871. However, the only birth record I could find that makes sense is September 10,1873 for a Patrick Duffy born in Carrickmacross. Also, it says Patrick is a widow and Kate is single, and that both of them are children of Ellen Duffy (Boylan), who was the head of the house. There is the census of 1901 which lists Patrick, his mother Ellen, and his sister Anne. However, instead of the ages being ten years apart, they 14 years apart. I am positive that Patrick Duffy's(1873-1948) father was also the Patrick Duffy you mentioned(1822-1884), and his mother was Ellen Boylan. 

Hey @JackAttack,

Cool, I've reviewed everything in the thread and what you've added. I want to say I've read a *lot* and done a lot of research on Drumbrone specifically as well as Magheracloone generally for a few years, and am in touch with several extended cousins.

I made a shadow tree to see how this Duffy family lines up with what trees and knowledge and I found one connection I am confident in, another a likely one:

1. Connection 1

The Patrick Duffy b. 1822 / d. 1884 who married Ellen Boylan?

Sean said he had a brother Peter Duffy who married Mary McDermott. One of their kids was Lawrence Duffy b. 1878 who married Annie Martin. One of their kids was Packie Duffy b. 1917. He was my grandfather Brian's Duffy friend and I have a bunch of pictures of them together as young children.

Packie lived in Ballynagearn, Magheracloone where the local national school was (and still is altho the building is different these days :-) ) Sadly I don't know what became of Packie but a few of his siblings ended up in the NY/NJ area.

I am pretty confident in this connection.

2. Connection 2

This cousin Alice Martin you mention... she was a Ward who married a Martin from Camaghy, she was born around 1890, died 1965? (Note Camaghy borders Drumbrone... it's in Enagh rather than Drumcarrow so a different page of census returns but they are right beside each other.)

Anyhow, one of my distant cousins who is related to the Murray (McNamurrig) family from Drombrone, her direct Murray ancestor from Drumbrone married Mary Martin from Camaghy. Mary had a sister Alice Martin b. 1898.

This Alice Martin was born Alice Martin so probably not the same one. But I figured I'd point it out on account of the geographical proximity, the date being close, and the townland being the same (Camaghy.) Perhaps one of her brothers was Alice Ward Martin's spouse - they are the only Martin family in Camaghy on the 1901 census anyhow :-)

Re: the Census.... ages tend to be pretty creative on the Irish census esp. bc between the 1900/1911 years some kind of old age pensioner program was started so it'd be in your best interest at the time to pad your age somewhat to collect that pension earlier :-) Also, the accuracy of the info sometimes depended on the reporter.

However I don't think the label of Kate as the daughter and not daughter-in-law in 1911 is wrong. Sean said Kate Ward Duffy died in childbirth with Bridget's birth. Patrick had a sister Kate Duffy close in age to himself. So I think after Kate Ward Duffy died, unmarried sister Kate Duffy came to help out.

Hope this helps. :-) Have you ever done DNA testing

Hi @mairindubh, thank you for the new info. Someday I would like to visit Ireland, specifically Drumbrone and potentially meet relatives there. How was Packie related to Brian? Was he born in Drumbrone? I found a record for the Lawrence that you speak of in the 1901 census: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001134834/ ;  Where does your grandfather Brian come from in the family tree? I haven't found anything on the Packie you mention, but I will keep looking. I am trying to find the parents of Patrick (1822-1884), Edward (1828-?), and Peter (1821-?). I believe the father is also named Patrick. It's interesting that there is another Alice Martin from the same area. I am not very familiar with all of the names of the places, I just went off of what was on the funeral card for her and Patrick (1873-1948). I believe my Alice Martin married a man named Michael Martin. Thanks for clarifying about the census, I was wondering why all of the ages didn't match up. I think Patrick's sister Kate was born around 1875. I have heard stories from my grandmother about the Duffy's being very poor since Patrick was a simple farmer, and after Kate died it was difficult to support 6 children, and at times they had to share a single pair of shoes. I have never done DNA testing, but I would like to someday in the future. I am trying to get as much information as I can for free. As I'm sure you're familiar with, we unfortunately can't look at the majority of the censuses from 1821-1891 because of the large fire that destroyed the building where the records were held 99 years ago. The next census was taken in 1926, and hasn't been released yet. It makes you realize how much was lost. Have you done DNA testing? :)

Hey Jack, If you create a free ancestry.com acct I can add you to the Packie Duffy tree I have as well as the shadow tree I made from this thread so you can peruse them at your leisure. My email is mairin at gmail - drop me an email and I can send you an invite.

It is unclear to me if my family has a connection to Packie or not - I just know that the families were close. There are many photos of my grandpa and Packie and Packie at our family farm helping out with the haying. The problem w my family knowledge going way back here is my grandpa was the youngest of 7, and his dad died when he was like 3 years old. I know quite a few things passed on by his elder sisters / my great aunts, but not to the depth you'd wish for. I too have mass cards and other papers and photo albums that have helped fill the gaps besides records.

Some of the Irish govt records lost in the fire - at least substitutes for them - are planned to be released next year. They kept the burnt materials until tech could recover them and apparently the tech exists now. I am trying not to get my hopes up too much but next year will be interesting for Irish genealogists :-)

I have not done DNA but two of my Duffy cousins have, so if anyone in your line has, at least on AncestryDNA, I can check for a connection.

You are smart to start out w free resources. I went that way until I hit a total brick wall and then eased into Ancestry databases w free public library access and when COVID hit I couldn't resist temptation and got a subscription.

I have been to Drumbrone (my family always spelled it Drumbrawn fwiw, and it was also sometimes spelled Drumbroan in records) as well as both Magheracloone churches, our Duffys went to St Peter and Paul and have a stone there in the old section.

Actually I just randomly happened to find Alice Martin's grave at St. Peter and Paul's... it's the black one in the background here:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/200984354/annie-martin

One free resource you might find useful for the NY side of your family history is fultonsearch.org which is just recently back online. The newspaper to look for is the Irish American Advocate out of manhattan altho it covered all buroughs. The gossip pages are full of great info, and it was a long running paper. The Brooklyn Daily Eagle archives are also free thru the Brooklyn Public Library website and also have Irish American info from across the boroughs.

Let me see if I have anything for the parents you're looking for. You're probably well-aware of the NLI website's Catholic parish register books for Magheracloone. They are certainly not too easy to decipher and the scans for many pages are in poor condition and there are no death records.... but sometimes they can surprise you.

There is also a PDF written by Patrick Duffy I believe from PRONI on their websitr re: the Shirley Estate papers and it has info about various families in the area w names, many whom were sent abroad during the Famine.

Finally there is a letter transcribed and published by the Clogher Record in 2001 of a rent relief letter signed presumably by most of the families in Magheraclone during 1847, it has a long list of names + townlands. It can be had for free if you sign up for a free limited acct w the journal archive service (I think jstor?) Anyway I'll save you the effort, I have it handy, I can give you a list of all the signees from 1847 in Drumbrone and who i know and who I dont:

Peter McNamurrig (typically nglicized Murry) - I think this is a relation of my distant cousin I mentioned earlier
Patt Duffy - I think this is your man
John Crawley - ?
John Duffy - bootmaker who lived next door to my Duffys, his son was James who married Margaret Reilly
Bryan Duffy - that's my ggrandfather
Thomas Duffy - ?
Hugh Duffy - ?

The Tithe Applotment books from 1832 from Drumbrone are also smtg to check for going back further, here is that:
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?…

We've got there in 1832 the following fellows (and lady):
- James Crosby
- Hugh Duffy
- Patk Sr.
- Peter Duffy
- Owen Duffy Sr.
- Thomas Duffy Jr.
- Thomas Duffy Sr.
- Cormick Duffy
- Andrew Duffy
- Patk Duffy Jr.
- Felix Keenan
- Peter McNamurrig (Murry)
- Thomas McNamurrig
- Margaret Marron
- James Mohan
- George Mohan

I am assuming the Patricks there are your guys as well. I've no clue who my guy is that list if I have one there. Bryan was probably too young to be listed there, his father may well be on that list.

In trying to determine who it might be... well I know where the family house is and what plot. The 1861 Griffiths valuation for Drumbrone has maps with the plot lines and also lists the acreage. I waa hoping to compare acreage to see if I could determine which farm was the same one (yes huge assumption that the plots didnt change, they likely did) however between 1832 tithe applotment books and 1861 griffiths valuation, it is my understanding the unit of acreage changed and I do not know the conversion factor.

Anyway hope that helps, I will check on the folks you're looking to go back further on and see if I can find anything w what I know / have access to.

Hi @mairindubh, thanks for the information.  Is your email mairin@gmail.com or mairindubh@gmail.com?   Perhaps there is a connection between your grandfather and Packie. Thank you for finding Alice's grave-I never would have seen that. My grandmother will be happy to finally know where she will rest in peace. A lot of this is about getting closure. I'm not sure if anyone else in my family has done dna testing, but I doubt it. I will check fultonsearch.org and see if I can find anything. Actually I'm not aware of the NLI website or the shirley estate papers you are talking about. I just got started on this. Thanks for sending the transcribed letter. What are the title applotment books and the Griffith's valuation?

@JackAttack Eek, so sorry I seem to have missed your reply! It's the first email, sorry I am nervous about posting publicly because of spam.

Here's the NLI website for Magheracloone parish records:
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0293

Depending on the condition of the page in the scan, they can be quite difficult to read. Ancestry.com has different scans that have transcriptions. After years of spending hours reading records from the area, I'm able to interpret some of the names and placenames I couldn't when starting out, if you find something of interest I'm happy to help interpret.

The Shirley estate papers are up at the PRONI center in Northern Ireland (I believe Belfast.) It is on my list of places to go when I'm able to go back to Ireland. There's some info on them here: https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/introduction-shirley-papers&nb…; - the PDF I mentioned is linked at the bottom of that page.

@mairindubh, not a big deal, it's only a message board. I understand about the spam. I have a lot of it. When you say quite difficult to read, you must mean impossible! I am terrible at reading cursive and the pages are faded away. I will keep looking. I think in the Tithe Applotment Books, my Patrick Duffy Sr (1822-1884) could be listed as Patrick Duffy Jr, he would have been only 10 at the time. I'm not sure if his father was also Patrick Duffy. I just sent you an email about the Duffy tree on ancestry. The second link you sent me doesn't work, it says page not found. I am also trying to find out what happened to Patrick Duffy (1905-?) from the family with six children. All I know from my grandmother is that he moved to London. Was Packie's real name Patrick? What month was he born in? I think I could find out what happened to him. There are several people with that name who were born in the same year. 

Hi.  I came across this webpage.  My grandmother emigrated to USA from Ireland.  Her name was Mary Ann Duffy and she married to Thomas Doherty.  They had three daughters.  My mother, Eileen Doherty Seremeth was the middle child.  I would like to learn more about my grandmother, Mary Ann Duffy as much as I can. She was born on 30 january 1907 in Drumbrawn, Magheracloose County, Monahen, Ireland. 

Hi @mseremeth, I would love to hear from you! I have made a lot of progress on this family since 2021... What's your email address?

-Jack