Descendants/Ancestors of Daniel Cremin/Cremmin(s) & Catherine Cotter in Ballynoe/Ballinoe Co. Limerick

Hi Eliza,
Please be careful with the Cimin/Cremmin /Cremen/Creman names there are 100’s in this area, the registration district is Newcastle. You need to read each record for the townland.

Daniel 1871

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1871/03268/2197765.pdf

 

Catherine 1873
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03167/2161835.pdf

Timothy 1876     BUT it says James………………look to the declaration on the right.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03063/2123027.pdf

Mary 1878

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1878/02971/2088616.pdf

 

Anne 1880

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1880/02879/2055165.pdf

 

Daniel 1881

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02822/2035395.pdf

 

William 1884………………..NOTE your is the bottom one, there is another William near the top of the page.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1884/02697/1993279.pdf

Margaret 1886

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1886/02609/1963465.pdf

Denis 1888

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1888/02491/1924169.pdf

 

This is a death for a Daniel Cremin BUT it says Ellen was the informant. Doesn’t state relationship.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1926/04992/4362008.pdf

 

 

This is the site to use. (it’s free)

Civil records from 1864.  Births up to 1917 (as today, these are updated about every 3 months)

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/

 

Death and Marriages are all different years, it’s luck if they are there.
Where a record doesn’t have an image, there is a link to order an image 4 Euros.
 

I hope this is a help.

Margot

 

Hi Margot

I have found all of this information, but thanks for your help. I know there are a LOT of Cremin's in the area. I'm not sure who the Ellen Cremin, who is present at the the death of Daniel Cremin(d. 1926) she is also present at the death of his wife Catherine (d.1934). I think perhaps she is a granddaughter, possibly one of Timothy's daughters - his eldest could be Mary Ellen and just goes by Ellen, but this is just guesswork.

I'm looking to try find a Timothy Cremin who marries Catherine (maiden name unknown), probably between 1830 and 1850. They lived in Ballynoe, Co. Limerick (Newcastle Registrated District). Or any children they may have had?

I can't see any birth records for 1917 on the Irish Genelogy website. It just seems to stop at 1916. Perhaps they will update it in the new year

Thanks again

Hi, sorry, just checked it was a death in 1917, the baby was born December 1916.
Oooops! sorry.

Ballynoe, is the Parish of Mungret, records are only from 1844.
I can't seem to match the area of Ballynoe with the Tithe records, I know town land names change.

I don't think I know anywhere else to search, sorry.
Margot

 

 

Hi Margot

Just wondering how you know Ballynoe is in the Parish of Mungret? I thought it was in either Feenagh or Knockaderry Parish? Just based off where Daniel Cremin and Catherine Cotter's Children are baptised. They weere all baptised in Knockaderry Parish. However on the civil birth records, the registrar's district is Feenagh, in the Union of Newcastle. I believe the name of the land has changed from Ballynoe/Ballinoe, I'm just entirely sure what it has changed to

Thanks for your help

 

Hi Eliza,.......................
Just wondering how you know Ballynoe is in the Parish of Mungret?
I work on  a PC so I have may be 12 sites open at a time.
The easiest way to find out where a place is........google/search put this in as it is...........

ballynoe limerick map

Then you get the info and a map, it says large map at the bottom, click on it and it shows the area.
There are also more items to look at. I never work on an IPad or iphone can't stand them! too bitty!
Then on a PC I can flick back and forth.
Feenagh is nearer to Newcastle where Ballynoe is nearer to Patrickswell.
Sorry but you really need a paper map, I have several of the small maps and a couple of Ireland, some show different townlands.
If you us Griffiths Valuation and look at maps, you need a modern map to to pin point the old townland you are looking for, say from a Lough, River or the coastline.
There are Union, Barony, Parish and townlands and between 1817 and 1864  their names changed or overlapped. 
​
Knockaderry  is north east of Newcastle.
Town land, Parish, registration districts names changed which doesn't help, that's why I use the good old paper maps. 

I saw a photo  a Church on an  Ancestry tree, mmmm! that's not the correct Church, the one they needed at the time of their ancestors marrage was now a Ruin.
They had the town name, if they had read the info they would have seen that the Church he had was built in the 1880's and was Church of Ireland.
I contacted the tree owner with the photo that he should have, after a few emails and the change of Church in his tree, he found new relatives in the USA. 
So a map, then good old google/search.
Sorry if I go on, 
Margot
 

Thanks Margot, I looked at google maps like you suggested and I have attached a map of Ballynoe, Co. Limerick. I I altered the spelling of Ballynoe to Ballinoe, and I see they are 2 different places!! One near the Tipperary border, and one between Knockaderry and Kilmeedy. I think the second one is the place where the Cremin's lived. Knockaderry, Kilmeedy and Monagea are all nearby, which tallies with all of my records. Did you see a 3rd Ballynoe on your maps, nearer to Patricks Well?

Ballynoe, seems to spelled Ballynoe most of the time on the Cremin's records, however the spelling must have changed over the years to Ballinoe. It is great to see it on the map , makes everything much clearer. 

Griffith's Valuation maps are something I've yet to wrap my head around, so I may try use them again

Thanks again Margot, much appreciated

Hi Eliza,
It's like Templemore, I always ask which one, Derry or Tpperary.  Ballingarry is another, there are several repeated names!
Keep digging, you will get there.
Margot

 

This is great info. I very recently discovered that Margaret Nash (who became Margaret Cremin) was my GGM. I am descended from Honoria Nash, one of her children, Born in Ballynoe 9th May 1890 (the one near Knockaderry, Limerick). The Nash family of course can be found on the 1901 and 1911 censuses in Ballynoe, and Honoria (often spelled out as Nora) (assume that's her, is at House 9 in nearby Aughalin as a Domestic by 1911). She moved to Wategate, St John's Parish, Limerick City and married Thomas O'Donnell on 10th June 1921 but died 25 March 1925. Thomas then remrried. If you have any info on the Nash family and / or predecessors of Margaret Nash / Cremin nee Kinnane, it would be appreciated also as I haven't started into it as yet. There was also a connection to Clonmel, Tipperary but don't know what that was other than that's where she was when giving birth to my father, Patrick in 1919.

Mike McMahon

Hi Mike, 
You say.............
There was also a connection to Clonmel, Tipperary but don't know what that was other than that's where she was when giving birth to my father, Patrick in 1919.
Before I send the information I found....................
On his birth record his names was Nash, did you know this?
Margot
 

Yes, indeed. How he acquired the surname McMahon I don't know, would be nice to find his baptismal record. I've worked backwards from his step-father in Limerick, Thomas O'Donnell, who married Honora Nash in 1921 in Limerick, she is listed as a "Spinster" so it seems to fit, as there are no recorded births in Limerick with a Hanora Nash as the mother and child Patrick in the relevant time-frame. 

Yesterday, I found that her father, John Nash was in the same boat, being the illegitemate son of a Tod ? Massey, occupation "Gentleman", can't make put hid father's christian name or abbreviation on the document ?

Hey

Great to hear from you.

I have some information on the Nash Family. John Nash first married Catherine White, not sure of the year. I found 5 children

Patrick 6 May 1865

Catherine 2 July 1868

Thomas  23 Dec 1869

Michael 15 Sep 1872

William 1 Jan 1875

Catherine Nash nee White died aged 43 , on 4 Jan 1883

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1883/06370/4827884.pdf

 

John then goes on to marry Margaret Kinnane, you have that record. I found 7 children

Michael John

Catherine ( I believe his first daughter named Catherine may have died as an infant)

Honora - who you know

James

Margaret - Married John McEnery in 1922

Anne -  Married Timothy McCarthy in 1917 - found one son John 

Richard

Catherine moved to Deleware in the United Sates, and married Patrick Gartland in 1922

Michael John also moved to the states, and married Johanna Cremin in 1923.

I have more information I can try to put it together for you and send it on

 

All the best

Eliza

Hi

I have put together some of the information and links I have for Catherine Nash – Honora Nash’s sister. I originally gathered this information because of Bridget Cremin (their younger sister). I found an immigration record for her in 1928, and it listed her arrival contact as her sister Mrs Catherine Gartland.

 

Catherine Nash born 23 Jun 1888

She is present in the 1901 Irish Census living with her parents

She emigrates to United states in 1904, this record has her name crossed out which I believe means she wasn’t on the ship and went on a different ship at a slightly later date. The forms were filled out in advance and if you didn’t pass a medical exam you weren’t allowed on board – or something like that

The immigration record has an aunt named Annie Keenan (Kinnane) as her arrival contact in the States, in Claymont Delaware.

She is working as a maid/servant in the 1910 United States Census

She married Patrick Gartland in 1922

She is also  in the 1930 United States Census, her husband died in 1936, and she is a widow in the 1940 United States Census. She married again in May 1952 to Edward Callahan

Catherine Callahan formerly Gartland nee Nash died on 1 Oct 1966

 

If you look at the tree on family search there is some more information there as well. Hope this is helpful

Hi Eliza,

That's amazing, I'm very grateful to you for all this help !

Best wishes,

Mike

Mike,   
Can I just point out that Patrick's birth record says.................. born in Tipperary.......that is Tipperary Town.
Margot

Hi Margot,

Thanks for the clarification, that makes more logic !

 

Mike

 

Hi Eliza, Margot and Mike,

I am a great granddaughter of Margaret Nash and John Nash. I was very interested to see their marriage certificate, especially noting his father's last name was not Nash but Massey. It's a shame they didn't list his mothers name as that would probably explain how he came to live in Ballynoe. Perhaps he was adopted by a Naah family. The John Nash family tree is very complicated as he was married three times. Margaret was his third wife, She then went on to marry a Cremin and had two children. 

Hi Nash,
Births from 1864 to 1920, marraiges up to 1944 and deaths, if they are there, most are after 1864.
Welcome to Irish Genealogy - Irish Genealogy
Try that link above, you should be able to get all the info. there
After that, familysearch.org has births up to 1958.
Margot

 

 

the 

Margot,

Thank you for your reply. I have used the websites you suggested and have found tons of information on John Nash's descendants. I am interested in learning about who his mother, father or siblings were. But I'm thinking there are no records around that time period of 1825. Most of the records do not indicate mothers name for most forms. I found the church version of his third marriage to Margaret, as well as his prior two marriages. On those forms Nash is listed as his father's name. It was only on the civil form that J.T. Massey was listed as his father. The handwritten civil form you posted above is different from the typed version. On the typed version there was a space to write comments under the heading of Notes. They noted the name J.T. Massey with a question mark which I'm guessing that means they thought it was unusual. I googled the Massey family and learned they were Barons that owned land throughout Limerick. For his prior two marriages i can only find church records and not civil records. 
 

Is there a website that lists how people came to live in their properties? John Nash appears to have lived in this Ballynoe home since the 1850"s. My knowledge of Irish tenant farmer system is limited.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read and respond to my inquiries.

 

 

 

Hi Nash,

1823 to 1837 the Tithe records show whoever owns or rents property.
When and if you find the person you are looking for, when you look at the actual document if you look up to the tope of the list for the first townland entry you can work out who the owenr or landlord is. You will see the amount of land each entry has.

The Tithe Applotment Books, 1823-37 (nationalarchives.ie)

This is the main archives link
The National Archives of Ireland

Margot