David McKee - where to go from here?

Maymie,

A few comments. 

Nancy & Agnes are interchangeable names in Ireland and Scotland so it’s common to see both in reference to the same person.

You mention that the McKee family were Presbyterian. However St Anne’s where David was baptised in 1809 is Church of Ireland (ie Anglican/Episcopalian). So are you sure you have the right David McKee baptism? Are his parents names on his death certificate for example?

I searched the 1807 & 1808 street directories for Belfast for a Hamilton McKee but did not find one, but not everyone was listed:

https://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/1807.htm

The agricultural census in 1803 was by its nature a rural survey. People living in towns and cities such as Belfast weren’t included, since they weren’t engaged in agriculture. So if the Belfast Hamilton was living there in 1803, he wouldn’t be included. But he might have moved to Belfast between 1803 and 1808. There’s no easy way to tell. Hamilton McKee is a relatively unusual name, and even if it’s not the same man, there might be a family connection. However I did find evidence that there was more than 1 person named Hamilton McKee. See this link to the Ros Davies site which gives 4 references dating to the 1860s & 1870s:

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~rosdavies/genealogy/SURNAMES/Mc/McKeeAi…

The 1834 tithe applotment records list a Gown McKee and a John McKee both farming in Drumnascamph. Possibly a connection to the 1803 family:

http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/down/tithe-applotment-books/clonduff-parish.php

Griffiths Valuation for 1864 lists 4 McKee properties in Drumnascamph (which is about 50 miles south of Belfast): 2 John McKees, David McKee and Gawn McKee. John McKee (Bridge) had plot 5 which was a 23 acre farm; John McKee (fat) had plot 15 a 24 acre farm; David Mckee had plot 16 a 17 acre farm and Gawn McKee had plot 17 a 4 acre farm.

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch

So there does not appear to have been a Hamilton McKee there by 1864. And there were no McKees there by the 1901 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Tullyish/Drumnascamp/

Regarding finding marriages, tradition was to marry in the bride’s church, after which she’d usually attend her husband’s. So the marriage can often be in a different church to the one in which the couple’s children were later baptised.

Secondly, not all churches have records for the early 1800s, and of those that do, they are not all on-line. (St Anne’s is on-line but many other churches – and there are about 200 altogether in Belfast – are not on-line).  The most complete collection of church records for the counties of Ulster is in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast. A personal visit is required to view them though. If you think the Drumnascamph familiy might be yours, Clonduff Church of Ireland has records from 1782 onwards. There are 2 Presbyterian churches in the parish. Clonduff Presbyterian has baptisms from 1842 onwards and Hilltown from 1845 onwards. (Copies of all those records are in PRONI).

Don’t expect too much from early Irish records. In the early 1800s most marriages simply recorded the couples names, the date and their 2 witnesses. Nothing more. Likewise baptisms often only contain the parents names and the date (sometimes only 1 parents name). Occasionally you get a townland but in Belfast there was rarely an address or occupation.

I can see that the 1841 census has a James McKee aged 25 and born Ireland living with David & his family in Bridgeton, Glasgow. Like them he was a cotton hand loom weaver. Have you researched what happened to him? Presumably he was a close relative – David’s brother perhaps? (Incidentally in the 1841 census (only) adults ages were rounded down to the nearest 5 years. So James could be anything between 25 & 29. Children up to 15 were recorded with their actual ages). 

There’s a death on 4th July 1868 in Bridgeton for James McKee aged 47, son of Hamilton McKee & Margaret Baird. So, if his age at death is accurate (and it may not be) he was born c 1821. He was a cotton loom weaver and married to Elizabeth Moore. (They married in Bridgeton in 1866). Hamilton McKee was also a cotton weaver but was dead by 1868. Margaret Baird was still alive. The informant was James' brother John McKee.

I can see some trees on Ancestry (the Moss family for example) which have “your” Hamilton McKee dying in Scrabo Co Down on 23.8.1861. (There is a will on the PRONI website for that man). However that Hamilton was a farmer who left his farm to his son Hamilton. According to his will, the Scrabo Hamilton’s wife was named Mary Johnston alias McKee. Different occupation and different wife mean it’s not the same Hamilton as the one married to Margaret Baird.  So that would appear to be inaccurate information on those trees. A common problem. Some of the trees list another child to Hamilton & Margaret. John born Scotland 1826 and died in Glasgow 1892. I can’t say how accurate that is but you might want to investigate it.

I notice a Hamilton McKee baptised in Glasgow (St Mary’s parish) on 15.11.1852 to John McKee & Mary Boyle. A catholic ceremony. That child appears to have died in Bridgeton in 1863 aged 10.

I had a look for Margaret McKee deaths 1868 – 1900 in Ireland. There were 352, of which there were 50 in Belfast. You could plod through them all - they are mostly free to view on the irishgenealogy site - and see if you can spot Hamilton’s widow. You are obviously looking for someone born 1790 or earlier, probably in one of the Ulster counties, so it should be possible to eliminate many of the 352 fairly quickly.  (I looked for her death in Scotland which is easier to do, but didn’t see it there).

A little general information about Belfast in the 1800s. The population of Belfast expanded dramatically in the 1800s. In it’s early years it was largely Presbyterian (being dominated by Scots who had moved to Ireland in the 1600s). The population of Belfast in 1800 was about 20,000. In 1901 it was 349,000. The establishment of the shipyards, 50 linen mills and countless support industries led to a huge influx of workers from the surrounding countryside who were looking for better paid jobs in the city. 

Your ancestor might have been born in Belfast but it’s equally possible that he or his parents were amongst the tens of thousands who were pouring into the city every year around that time. 

A little information about weaving. In rural areas most weaving was done at home using hand loom weaving machines, such as are still used in the Outer Hebrides in Scotland to make Harris Tweed. These machines were collapsible, so as to be stored out of the way when not needed and for ease of transport should the weaver move home, as they often did, to follow the available work.

Most weavers in Ulster were labourers who earned a bit of extra money by weaving in the winter months when there wasn’t much labouring work required on farms.  This meant that labourers in Ulster had a slightly better standard of living than elsewhere in Ireland. It also gave them some ready cash (in a society that mostly operated by barter) for the things that could not be bought by barter, eg a ticket to America or Canada. 

At one time weavers wove a lot of cotton but the interruption of supplies from the southern US states during the American War of Independence  in the 1770s meant they focused on other materials, notably flax (which linen is made from) and which grows well in Ireland in contrast to cotton which won’t grow at all.  They did weave other products eg calico and wool as required, but by the 1800s it was mainly linen. Linen made at home was taken to the local linen market and sold there.

As the 19th century progressed, water powered linen mills were introduced all over Ulster. These were faster than home weavers and often made better quality material and so gradually made the home weaver redundant.  In addition, the factories also mostly employed women and children (being nimbler and cheaper) so this impacted on male employment too. At a time when farms were starting mechanise and so needed fewer labourers, the average labourer/weaver therefore faced a bleak future and so these combined changes were a major factor in many a labourer’s decision to leave Ireland during the 1800s. A little more information on this link: https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/flax-plant.html

Maymie,

They always say to save draft documents as you write them! I found a little more on this McKee family.

The Iverson family tree on Ancestry has John McKee and Mary Boyle listed. It records John as being born in Scotland c 1827 and marrying Mary in Killyleagh Presbyterian church, Co Down in 1849.  Some of that information looks pretty unreliable to me. John & family are in the 1861 census for Dyeworks Rd, Bridgeton, Glasgow which gives his place of birth as Ireland, not Scotland. The 1849 marriage in Killyleagh is between a John McKee and Mary McKee (not Boyle). Plus that John’s father was William McKee, a farmer, not Hamilton McKee. Looks to be the wrong marriage altogether. 

According to one of their children’s birth certificates (Elizabeth Isabella McKee b 3rd Aug 1863 in Glasgow), John & Mary married in Glasgow on 1st September 1847, though I can’t find a record of that in the church records but they are not complete, so that may explain it’s absence.

In the 1861 census, John & Mary have 5 children, all born in Glasgow. Their daughter Mary born 1856 in Glasgow died in Pittsburgh in 1927, according to the Iversen tree. That aspect of the tree may well be correct.

Scottish death certificates contain the deceased’s parents names. Probably worth looking up John’s death in Glasgow in 1892 to confirm he is also a son of Hamilton & Margaret. (Death registered in Bridgeton GROS ref 644/1 754). His mother’s maiden name is in the index as Baird so it looks pretty likely.

We know that “your” Hamilton McKee was dead by 1868, and that his wife Margaret Baird was still alive that year. Death registration only started in Ireland in 1864 and it’s my guess he died before that, making him very hard to trace. So what happened to Margaret Baird? I can’t believe the 3 sons, who had all moved to Glasgow, would leave their widowed mother alone in Ireland. (In other situations the widowed mother usually pops up in the Scottish censuses, living with one of her children, having moved over to Scotland.)  Since she doesn’t appear to have done that (though I haven’t checked all the possible censuses) my guess is that she was living with a daughter in Ireland.  Take that as a guess though, not fact.

Maymie,

Regarding David being Presbyterian some of the time and Church of Ireland at others, all I would infer from that is that he changed denomination from time to time. “Switching lanes” some folk call it.  It wouldn’t have anything to do with the Penal Laws. They were long repealed by the time David was born.  There are plenty of Presbyterian baptism records in Ireland in the 1800s.  Nothing to stop a family baptising their children Presbyterian if they wanted. (The oldest Presbyterian baptism & marriage records in Belfast date to 1723 (Rosemary St Presbyterian church). Antrim 1st Presbyterian church has records from 1675.  Lisburn’s start in 1679. The Penal Laws did prevent Presbyterians from holding public office at one time but there weren’t many other restrictions on them. The laws were harsher for Catholics, though not always enforced. But they were more or less all repealed by 1800 anyway.  For a hundred years or more, there was a question mark about the validity of Presbyterian marriages, and that was only fully resolved by a new Marriage Act in 1844 which confirmed their validity, but the reality was that most Presbyterians just ignored that uncertainty issue and married in their own churches anyway. The records are there to prove it. Way back.

Ballymacarrett is the area around the ship-building docks in Belfast (where the Titanic was built). The UHF records are probably from Ballymacarrett Church of Ireland. (The local Presbyterian church doesn’t have any records before 1837). Ballymacarrett’s records start in 1827 which is around the time the church was built. So at a guess the family used St Anne’s till 1827 and then Ballymacarrett when it opened. So that suggests they were living in that general area, on the Co. Down side of the River Lagan. It’s about a quarter of a mile from St Anne’s to Ballymacarrrett.

The PRONI guide to Irish church records indicates that Ballymacarrett doesn’t have any burial records, so if Hamilton died in that parish, there’s unlikely to be any record of it. It looks to me as though he was dead by 1834 because there’s a likely marriage record on Scotlandspeople for George Miller to Margaret Baird in Barony parish, Glasgow on 17.8.1834. That was a Church of Scotland ceremony (ie Presbyterian). Tradition being to marry in the bride’s church that points to her being Presbyterian, at that date anyway. And it appears to narrow the date of the move to Scotland to 1829 – 1834.

The main migration of Scots to Ireland was in the 1600s. Some 200,000 arrived then (something like 15% of the entire Scottish population). Some came as part of the Plantation of Ulster 1610 – 1625 or the Hamilton & Montgomery settlements c 1610, many also arrived and then stayed behind when a 10,000 strong Scottish army was disbanded at Carrickfergus in the 1640s, and a there was a huge influx in the 1690s due to famine in Scotland.  By the 1700s some of those Scots were starting to leave Ireland for north America, being dis-satisfied with life here, due to rising rents, lack of spare land (population of Ireland went up from 3 million in 1741 to 8 million in 1841), poor harvests, the falling price of cotton and later linen, plus various Government restrictions. So that’s not to say your family couldn’t have arrived in the 1700s but it’d have been against the flow. Statistically they are most likely to have arrived in the 1600s. Belfast wasn’t very significant in the 1600s (Carrickfergus was the capital of Ulster then) and they’ll likely have settled in a rural area, perhaps in Down or Antrim, before being drawn to Belfast by new work opportunities at the beginning of the 1800s. That’s the likely scenario.

I think you’ll struggle to find much more on Hamilton. The records just don’t exist. Apart from the baptism & marriage records (which have many gaps), most working class folk lived their lives largely below officialdom’s radar. 

The name Hamilton McKee seems mostly to be found in Co Down so I’d suspect that’s where they were living in the 1600s and 1700s. I found a couple more Hamilton McKees.  One was a labourer whose daughter Mary married a Robert Moore in 1848 and the other was a caretaker whose daughter Margaret married Robert Hanna in 1851. Both were in Co Down, and not too far from Belfast. People in Ireland and in Scotland had a naming tradition and this led to the same names being handed down generation after generation, so some of those Hamiltons are probably related way back but the records just don’t exist to establish how.

Hope this helps a little.

Maymie,

With saving drafts, I find it easier to write the reply as a WORD document and save it to my computer. I then cut and paste the whole reply across to the board when I am ready. It’s less “clunky” that way.

Regarding my view on the likelihood of finding much more about Hamilton’s life, you could always get a second opinion.  Most researchers will give you an opinion on what might be achieved, and a cost estimate without you having to fork out in advance. You can then decide. Researchers in the Belfast area: http://sgni.net     Expect to pay £20 to £30 an hour. 

My general experience is that researching in Ireland pre 1800 can be almost impossible, unless you were very wealthy, had a lot of land or were notorious in some way. Or you were a Quaker. (They have excellent records back to the early 1700s).

Regarding your connection to James McKee, his death certificate is quite clear that his parents were Hamilton & Margaret. Also the informant was “John McKee, brother.” So that seems fairly clearcut. He had only been married a couple of years so presumably didn’t have many children, if any. (I didn’t check but you should be able to find out from the 1871 census). But if he didn’t have any children then that would account for the absence of DNA matches with him.  On the other hand, going by the 1861 and 1871 censuses, his brother John had a whole squad of children, some of whom presumably have descendants in Scotland today. And that would account for the DNA matches you have found with that line.

You ask about managing without a rental car in Belfast.  Yes that’s perfectly practicable, and you’ll save on car parking fees.  There’s quite good public transport in and around Belfast and they do various tickets that allow unlimited travel, for 1 day or multiple days. Details here:

https://www.translink.co.uk/usingtranslink/ticketsandtravelcards

(I am not totally familiar with all the tickets because being retired and a resident, travel on the buses and trains is completely free for me, so I don’t need to know about fares any more).

In addition to public transport, there are the usual open topped buses that do tours around the city. Most start from the City Hall in Donegall Square. You can hop on and hop off at any of the stops. Ticket is usually valid for 24 hours I think. They go down to the Titanic Museum and around the docks as well as all the usual sights.

Local  travel agents organize half and whole day tours. There are literary walking tours round Belfast. Foodie walking tours and goodness known what else.

If you are going to the Giant’s Causeway, many of the tour companies combine it with the Carrick-A-Rede rope bridge and a tour of Bushmills Whiskey Distillery. That makes a whole day tour. Some also include the Dark Hedges as a side trip. If you are a Game of Thrones fan you’ll likely have heard of them. Normally full of Chinese tourists taking selfies. Though not at the moment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Hedges#:~:text=The%20Dark%20Hedges%20is%20an%20avenue%20of%20beech,in%20the%20avenue%20becoming%20a%20popular%20tourist%20attraction.

Here’s a cut & paste list of local tourist attractions: 

TOURIST ATTRACTIONS

• A drive through the Mountains of Mourne in Co Down
• Visit Downpatrick Cathedral to see where St Patrick is buried (allegedly)
• Mount Stewart stately home near Newtownards (home of the Marquess of Londonderry) or Castle Ward at Strangford. (Both in Co Down). National Trust (free admission for those with reciprocal arrangements). http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/mount-stewart/
• Titanic Exhibition in Belfast docks. http://www.titanicbelfast.com/
• Open top Bus tour of Belfast
• Crown Bar in Belfast (200 years old, gas lit. Very popular with visitors). Has featured in many films eg Odd Man Out. http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/crown-bar/
• Traditional Irish singing and fiddly-dee music in Fibber Magee’s bar (next to the Crown Bar). Most nights from 9pm onwards. Free admission.
• Guided walks available. Contact the visitor centre in Donegall Square. 

http://www.ireland.com/en-gb/amazing-places/northern-ireland?gclid=CIOjr8CKisICFc3HtAod-iIA0Q

• If you like good seafood, go to the Mourne Seafood Bar in Belfast. (Booking pretty well essential in the evenings but not at lunchtime).

http://mourneseafood.com/belfast/

• Tour of Crumlin Rd Jail in Belfast, which closed in the late 1990s. (Includes the execution cell, with working gallows, and an opportunity to lie in the empty coffin, if you are so minded).

http://www.crumlinroadgaol.com/public-tour.html

• Bushmills Whiskey distillery tour (2 miles from the Giant’s Causeway). 

http://www.bushmills.com/BMTheOldBushmillsFindUs.html

• Day trip from Ballycastle to Rathlin Island to view the bird colonies, seals etc (best in Apr – Jun). 20 minute crossing if you get the fast ferry. 40 on the slow one. 

http://www.discovernorthernireland.com/Rathlin-Island-Rathlin-Island-P8209

• Carrickfergus Castle. Carrickfergus was the original capital of Ulster before Belfast. The castle is 800 years old. It was a military base until very recently and is intact. 

http://www.carrickfergus.org/tourism/attractions/carrickfergus-castle/

• Ulster – American Folkpark in Co Tyrone. Everything for the American or Canadian ancestor hunter. http://www.nmni.com/uafp/What-s-on
• US presidents Homesteads. (US Presidents whose ancestors came from Northern Ireland are: Andrew Jackson, James Knox Polk, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Ulysses Simpson Grant, Chester Alan Arthur, William McKinley, Woodrow Wilson, Benjamin Harrison & Grover Cleveland.) Many of their homesteads are now tourist attractions. (Details from Visit NI).
• GAME OF THRONES – For Game of Thrones (GOT) fans, a lot of it is filmed in Northern Ireland and there are special leaflets telling you where some of the main locations are. Some are on private property eg Shane’s Castle estate in Randalstown (and so not accessible), but many are accessible. One is a big quarry beside Carrick a Rede rope bridge. Another is the Dark Hedges near Stranocum (an avenue of 300 year old Beech trees). Organised bus trips round many of the GOT sites are available. Further details from Visit NI - the tourist information office in Belfast.

http://www.discovernorthernireland.com/gameofthrones/

• Elsewhere, Londonderry/Derry is well worth a days visit. Contact the visitor centre for details of guided walks. Walk round the city walls (the only completely intact set of walls in any city in Europe). See the guns used at the siege of Derry. I recommend Martin McCrossan’s tours. derrycitytours@aol.com See St Columb’s Cathedral. Visit the Bogside and see the murals. Learn about the more recent conflict in the area between Protestants and Catholics. Buy some corny souvenirs in the many tourist shops. The city is very compact and easily covered on foot. Walk over the peace bridge from one side of the river to the other. If using public transport, take the train to Derry as it goes along the coast between Coleraine and Derry and it’s a great view. Reportedly one of the most scenic train journeys in Europe.
• Giant’s Causeway, Co Antrim (busiest tourist attraction in Ireland). The Giant’s Causeway is free to visit but there’s a visitor centre which charges £9.50, and which some people think they have to pay to see the Causeway. Avoid the visitor centre. Go round the side and through the tunnel/bridge to the Causeway. It’s about a half mile walk to the Causeway, or you can take a bus (£2 return but free for members of the National Trust and reciprocal organisations). You can do a circular walk if you want, along the top of the cliffs and then down to the rocks and back along the road the bus uses.
• Carrick a Rede Rope Bridge Co Antrim (a few miles from the Giants Causeway). Wobbly rope bridge over a 200 foot drop, leading to a small island. Originally built for salmon fisherman. Now a major tourist attraction. (Most visitors do Bushmills distillery, the Giant’s Causeway and the Rope Bridge as part of the same excursion). Check the National Trust website as you sometimes need to book due to excessive numbers.
• Dunluce Castle (Scottish baronial castle on a cliff - former home of the Earls of Antrim till part of it fell into the sea during dinner one night in the 1600s). A couple of miles from the Giants Causeway.
• A drive along the coastal round from Giant’s Causeway to the Glens of Antrim (via Torr Head minor road, steep and twisty). Great views across to the Scottish mainland, the islands of the Inner Hebrides and to Rathlin Island. Stop in Cushendun (pretty harbour village) for a drink in Molly McBride’s bar or for a dander on the beach. Cushendun used to be a busy port for people travelling back and forth to Scotland. Many Scots settlers first arrived here.
• Gobbins Walk near Whitehead. This is a renovated Victorian walkway along the cliffs of Islandmagee. Lasts about a mile. Need to have a reasonable level of fitness and not be scared of heights. Advance booking usually required. 

http://www.discovernorthernireland.com/The-Gobbins-Islandmagee-Larne-P48901

Hillsborough Castle (The Royal Family’s residence when they are in Northern Ireland).  https://www.hrp.org.uk/Hillsborough-Castle/#gs.9an7lx

 

Maymie,

Around 1900 there were something like 200 churches in Belfast. If you follow this link you can see them all by denomination, and it shows what years they have records for. There were also a few churches that lost records due to being bombed by the Germans in WW2 or due to the 1922 fire in the PRO in Dublin. The number of churches in 1800 was a lot less than in 1900 but there were still quite a few around.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/proni-guide-church-records

The main thing to grasp is a lot of those records are not on-line anywhere at all. If you want to go through them you have to go into PRONI in Belfast in person and search, church by church.  

Although the UHF (ancestry.ireland) have St Ann’s I am not certain it’s for all the years that exist (they start in 1745).  You would need to check their website on that one.  Presbyterian churches in Belfast open in the early 1800s include Fisherwick, Fitzroy, & Rosemary St, also all souls Non Subscribing Presbyterian (NSP) & Rosemary St NSP.  Non subscribing Presbyterians are sometimes also known as Unitarians.

But we don’t actually know your Hamilton & Margaret were born or married in Belfast, do we?  They may have been amongst the hundreds of thousands drawn to Belfast from the countryside, attracted by the jobs in the mills, shipyards and support industries. They could have been born and married anywhere within 50 or 100 miles of Belfast. And not only does that means hundreds more churches, many don’t have records for the early 1800s and of those that do, they are not on-line.

Rootsireland is the other big site with a lot of Irish records but again there are many churches that they don’t have, particularly portestant records. 

I know you have had your DNA done. Family Tree DNA reportedly has more people with Ulster roots than any other company. That obviously increases the chances of finding a match. You can transfer your results to them for no fee.

The North of Ireland Family History Society is running an Ulster DNA project in conjunction with FTDNA and can offer testing kits at a reduced price.  http://www.nifhs.org (Go to DNA project on the website).