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Daniel Shea & Mary Murphy

Hi,

Thank you for the webinar this morning it was very helpful. I have two questions that in essence I am trying to answer:

1) Where exactly in Ireland was my paternal line from?

2) Was the surname in Ireland O'Shea or Shea?

Through the censuses I have traced the family back to the first Irish couple that lived and settled in England, Daniel Shea and Mary Murphy. They were married in 1853 inn Stepney in London. This is the first record I have found that is confirmed to be them. I believe they thenn settled in Swanscombe in Kent as that is where they were in 1861. Between 1853 and 1861 all children born were registered in the areas around Swanscombe (Gravesend and Northfleet). Their children's names were Jeremiah, Margaret, Mary Ann, Thomas, Elizabeth, Johannah and Daniel. I include this as I know children could be named after parents or siblings.

Daniel was born around 1827, I think, some estimates have it as early as 1824. All the censuses give for birth location is Cork or Ireland. His father is listed as Cornelius on both marriage certificates. He died in 1908, registered in Dartford in Kent.

Mary Murphy was born around 1827 as well and again the censuses just say Cork or Ireland for her birth place. Her father is given as Jeremiah on the marriage certificate. Her mother appears to have been an Ellen as there is an Ellen Murphy living with them in the 1861 and 1871 census with the relation of Mother and Mother in Law. Her birth year from those appears to be 1790 and she died in 1874 registered in Dartford, Kent. In the 1861 there is also a Dennis Murphy staying with them, who I have assumed is her brother. His birth year is given as 1839. I am currently looking into whether he married a Mary in 1862 and proceeded to live in Swanscombe as well. Mary died in 1884, registered in Dartford and she is buried in Swanscombe.

That is all the information I have on them.

The second question is that from 1853 to around 1910 all the family were Sheas but around 1910s some of them became O'Sheas. It could be that they were returning the O after Anglicising the name but that is the reason why I would like to know if the family were originally Sheas or O'Sheas in Ireland.

Any help or any pointers in the right direction would be gratefully recieved as with the common names I feel like I have hit a brick wall in my quest.

Kind Regards,

Luke

LPOShea

8 replies

Hi Luke:

Thank you very much for your kind remarks about the Creating Connections webinar and your attendance.  We have several Cork volunteers who may be able to assist you with your query.  I'm forwarding this message post to them and they will reply within the next few days or so.  You have included some very good information and many thanks for that.  

Any questions, please let me know.

All the best,

 

Jane

jhalloranryan@…

Hi Luke,
I have been asked by Jane Halloran Ryan of IrelandXO to help you if I can.
Firstly regarding the presence of the O' in a name. In the Church records (all denominations) the vast majority of names entered were entered without the O'. Whether this was laziness on the part of the clergyman or not we can only guess but throughout the records, surnames which generally contained the O' were, in the same families, some times entered with it and sometimes not. It was sometimes said that " the clergyman was standing too close to the altar wine" at the time. Throughout the 1800s and later, many people were illiterate and regardless of what they were entered as, they could not contradict the spelling or omissions.

I also have O'Shea in my extended family and there are still many Shea/O'Shea families throughout Cork City & County.
I will do some research based on the information you have given and get back to you asap.

Frank Fahy

Abbeystrowry CorkIrelandXO Volunteer

Thanks Frank that would be a great help. I am awaiting the results of a Y chromosone DNA test as well and that may help narrow down the areas to look at. When I did an Ancestry test I just got Munster as an area but I am not sure if that's because I have Irish blood on my mum's side as well and that created the mix (county Leitrim). My Aunt however got North and East Cork as a likely place our family was from. I am not sure if that helps at all but thought I would mention it. 

If there is anything more you require from me or anything I can do to assist please do let me know.

And thank you for the bit on the O, so it appears it could be either depending on what records are found. Looking at the timeline here for when the O was added it looks like it was added so they could avoid detection from people unknown. There has always been a story of a "midnight flit" from Essex back to Kent and this appears to be the time when the O was added.

Kind Regards,

Luke 

LPOShea

Hi Frank,

I have got the results back from my yDNA test. It suggests my roots are in North-West Cork in the Macroom-Millstreet area.

Kind Regards,

Luke

LPOShea

Hi Luke,

Have researched further and found the following info for you which I believe is what you were looking for in the case of Daniel and in the area associated with the family in your DNA tests.

I attach two files below on Baptism of Daniel in 1826 in Clondrohid Church which located to the North West of Macroom. He is the only Daniel Shea in County Cork with a father Cornelius baptised between 1820-1835. His mothers name was Margaret Galvan. I have tried for a marriage of Cornelius and Margaret or other siblings of Daniel, but have failed so far but will continue to look.

Will get back to you if I locate anything else.

Stay safe & well,

Frank Fahy

Abbeystrowry CorkIrelandXO Volunteer

Thanks Frank,

Unfortunately I am not sure that is him as I have spoken to someone who believes their wife is related to the apparent sister of that Daniel and she does not come up as a DNA match. Unless they are wrong on that but Clondrohid does appear to be around where my line is from.

On the Murphy side I think I have proven that the Denis Murphy that settled in Swanscombe is Mary's brother. He has Jeremiah as his father and Ellen was a witness at his wedding, to a Mary Connor/O'Connor also from Cork it appears. His birth year of around 1839 would cast doubt on the birth year of Ellen, and in fact on the 1861 census her birth year is given as 1806. She is also listed as a widow on that census, which would suggest that Jeremiah died at some point in the 1850s and Ellen and her son came over after this. On Mary and Daniel's birth certificate there is also a Julia Murphy as a witness who might be a sister of Mary. 

Kind Regards,

Luke

LPOShea

Hi Frank,

Do you have an e-mail address I can reach you on?

Kind Regards,

Luke

LPOShea

Hi Luke,

you can contact me on frankfahy054@gmail.com if I can be of help to you.

Frank Fahy

Abbeystrowry CorkIrelandXO Volunteer

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