Coll/Ryan from Manister/Fedamore/Garryellen/Croom

Hi Elaine, 

My name is David Whyte. I'm a Development Officer with Ballythoura Development. After Christmas we will be conducting a survey of historic graveyards in east Limerick including around both Mainister and Fedamore areas. The surveys will take place up to early summer next year. All data will end up on the website Historic Graves --> https://historicgraves.com/. This is a great resource for anyone researching family history and contains photos of landscapes, graveyards and individual plots. You should keep an eye on this! On the home page you can use the map feature to navigate around Limerick country. At the moment Fedamore won't appear but almost 30 graveyards in Limerick will be added in the coming months. If you have any more questions about the project or want to keep in touch you can contact me on dwhyte@ballyhoura.org. 

Hi Elaine,

I have Thomas and Mary in my tree, however I have the same problem finding documents, so this is based on family knowledge, rather than fact.

My GG grandparents are Margaret's brother and Thomas's sister respectively. They are John Ryan and Mary Coll who also married in Fedamore in Feb 1852 (this is the one record I have, and Thomas and Margaret were their witnesses).

I believe Thomas and Mary's father was also Thomas Coll, but I can't find any records to confirm the Ryan or Coll parents.

I also believe that after their mother died, the Coll girls were partly raised by their aunt and uncle. Maria Coll even moved to Australia with her cousin James Ryan and the families stayed close for several generations.

Channa

Thank you David and Channa for your replies.  I look forward to Manister/Fedamore being added to Historic Graves.  My great grandmother Bridget Coll seems to have lived in that area all of her life.  I know that her father Thomas Coll was living with her at the time of the 1901 census in Garryellen.  I did wonder if my GG grandmother Margaret Ryan was a sister of John Ryan.  It's a shame it's such a common surname and as you say paper documentation is hard to come by in the early/mid 1800's.  I did find a John Coll in the Griffiths Valuation of 1849 living in Fanningstown, Fedamore, and thought he could either be Thomas's father or brother.  I haven't been able to find anything else relating to him though!  The name Condon does seem to come up a lot in the baptism records of the Colls but again I haven't been able to find any definite relation between them.  It could be that Margaret and John Ryan's mother's maiden name was Condon?  I do know that Thomas's mother's name is definitely Mary (no maiden name however!).  My Great Grandmother Bridget Coll applied for her pension in 1920 and the 1851 census was referred to to establish her family details.  Thomas is listed as being 27 and unmarried (he married the following year) and his mother is a widow called Mary, so she would be our shared GGG grandmother!  

Elaine

Hello Elaine

Just came across this post ,good to make contact again.I have no news since our last e mails but have tried and failed to sort out Catherine.

1-Looking back. John Cull was leasing a house only from a widow Julia  Condon in Fanningstown in 1849 and there was no other Cull or Coll there then,She was leasing  it from a landlord

2-In 1851 census a Mary Cull was head of a household in Fanningstown from Julia Condon and again no other Cull or Coll so this must be the same place.

3-in  Griffiths Val. record  John  Coll was head of household .

These 3 records pose a few questions and I will take a big jump into the unknown by suggesting the John in 1849 was Marys husband who died before the census and the John in Griffiths ,which came later, was her son.. Any takers?

Regarding the 3 coll sisters Maria or mary is clearly identified but Bridget and Catherine are not..Thomas Coll married Margaret Ryan on 6th Oct.1852 and Mary was baptised 25 Sept 1853 but no account of Bridget or Catherine .A Bridget Coll was baptised in Fedamore parish on 17Aug.1855 to Thomas Coll and Margaret Holohan.It is possible that the wrong surname was recorded. I searched for a wedding for Coll/Holohan and found nothing..Searched for a Margaret Holohan marriage and nothing of consequence.

Interestingly I did find a marriage for John's sister Maria and attach it also

Donie O Sullivan

Hello Donie, hope you are keeping well in these strange times!  Yes I think Houlihan is a mistake on Bridget's baptism certificate, there's certainly lots of evidence to link the three sisters as being the children of Thomas Coll and Margaret Ryan.  I think you're right about John Coll, there must be a link seeing as there do not seem to be any other Coll families in the area.  I did have a little bit of luck in trying to find the right Ryan family for Margaret.  I noticed that there are lots of 'Mackey' godparents for the children of the Coll sisters so assumed they must be closely related.  I found a marriage entry for a Mary Ryan who married James Mackey.  They had a son, James Mackey, who was baptised on 17th May 1852 in Donaghmore and Knockea.  His godparents are Tom Coll and Margaret Ryan so I would imagine that Margaret and Mary are sisters!  I'll keep digging and see if I can find anything further!  I'll keep you posted!

Elaine

hello Elaine

I have got access to rootsireland.ie website that has all parish baptisms and marriages for the whole country and have been looking into it. plenty of dead ends but trying to piece together wat is in there is difficult

1- Tithe applotment books show a number of Condon families in Fanningstown ,mostly farmers.including a widow Condon. No Cull/coll there then

.2- Griffiths Valuation shows a John Cull leasing a house from a Julia Condon and he was there in 1849 but where did he come from? Could he be related to the Condons.Searches failed to fvind anything

3- assuming the John Cull was Mary's (1851 census)husband  and that John their son born about 1824 but where.? The only John Cull that would fit was born in Mitchelstown in 1820 to John Cull and Mary McGlen a credible option. it is a good possibility that widow Condon with 2 houses and 30 Irish acres ,c,48 English acres would have a farm servant  and somehow John and Mary found their way there.

I will look at the Bruree Colls and see if any had a brother John to match Mary's husband 

4-now where did Thomas who was born about 1818 come from..? was he a brother to John? I must try to pin him down.

5- The John Coll in Griffiths is ,I think ,the same one in 1849 notes and these were used by Griffith to compile the valuation list published later.Their son Jhn then is not in Griffiths.

Regards Donie

Hell Elaine

I may have solved the Coll conundrum in Fedamore parish. After 20 years trying to find my G G Grandmothers birth details I have just found a likely but surprising solution. I had tried everyrthing and came across a number of Catherine Colls but none to match the date of birth and father Thomas. She married on 26July 1887 with her father named as Thomas.She died in 1943 at 84 years giving a birth of c.1859.these ages are seldom accurate.Her father married a Margaret Ryan in 1852 and daughter Mary was born in  Fedamore parish in 1853 another daughter Bridget was born in 1856 but no account of Catherine and years of searching failed to find a match.

Another conundrum concerned another Coll family in Fedamore parish. There was no Coll/Cull in the parish in Tithe Applotment Books of about 1830 but a John Cull was noted in Griffithe Valuation  of c.1852.I fund this man was leasing a house only in 1849 and was included in Griffiths when finalised. S problem arose in the 1851 census extract as a Mary Coll,widow was recorded with her son John.,the only colls/culls in the parish. I guessed that John was mary's husband and had died shortly after 1849 recording so Mary was head of household in 1851 census even though John was still recorded in Griffiths. I recently tried to track down John and Mary Coll with a son John who was 27 in 1851 and therefore born c. 1824..I found only one likely candidate in Kilbehenny Parish, John Coll  born to john Coll and Mary McGlean on 25 June 1820 ,the only combination where all threematched up but Kilbehenny is about 30 miles from Fedamre and how did they find their way to Fedamore.? 

Having exhausted all possibilities for Catherine Coll I took a gamble in searching for Kate Coll and ,my goodness I found her born to Thomas Coll and a Mary Tobin in Kilbehenny on 10Nov.1861.and then the solution.It appears that Margaret Ryan died at Bridgets birth and Thomas re married to Mary Tobin in Kilbehenny on 9 Feb 1859 and Catherine was born on 10Nov.1861 and that is as good as I will get to solve the problem.

I am guessing that Thomas was another son to John and Mary McGlen but must check it out.I hope this .fills in some gaps and raises a few more questions 

Regards

Donie

Hi Donnie

My sister is on Ancestry, her name is Clare Kerr, I was asking about Fitzgerald and came across you and Elaine. Elaine and I share Thomas Coll and Margaret Ryan, through Bridget Coll.

However, I came across a record for Margaret Ryan not Margaret Coll and Thomas Coll was in attendance at her death in Garryellen. It records her death as 1889 at the age of 68, making her birth as 1819/20. I looked up births in Fedamore for 1819 and found a record showing her father as James Ryan and mother Ellena Condon could this information help in our search?

Would love to hear back. 

Anne Marie Hart

Hi Anne Marie

That's amazing detective work!  It must be our Margaret Ryan who died at Garryellen especially as Thomas Coll was present at death.  I think you're right about her parents being James Ryan and Ellen Condon.  I found who I think is Margaret's sister, Mary, who married James Mackey in 1846 in Manister.  I found 4 children for them, one of them being James Mackey who was born in 1852.  His godparents are Thomas Coll and Margaret Ryan.  Also there is a baptism record for Thomas and Margaret's grandson Joseph Clancy born in 1877 where his godmother is Mary Mackey.  There is also a baptism record for a Mary Ryan born in 1816 in Fedamore whose parents are James Ryan and Ellen Condon so all this points to Mary and Margaret being sisters.

Would love to find some more Coll connections, I'm sure Thomas must have had siblings.

Hope you're all well,

Elaine

Hi Elaine

Great to hear from you too.

I found a marriage record for Mary Coll who married a John Ryan in Fedamore 1852. Thomas Coll and Margaret Ryan were witnesses. I have them on my tree they had 5 children together.

Still loving it! 

Hope all is well with you too!

Anne Marie