Someone sent this to me and it seems the only thing I have to connect my grandfather with his mother. I’m at a loss which church this would mean as it just states Parish / district of Kilmore, Armagh, Roman Catholic. It was on the Roots Ireland website and copyright Armagh Ancestry.
Would anyone know where to start with this such as what church this may mean? June
The original baptism records for Kilmore parish, Co Armagh, 1899 don’t appear to be on-line anywhere. (There are on-line records up to 1881 but I can’t see any later than that). The parish should have the originals. They may be able to provide you with a copy (possibly for a fee). Contact the parochial office.
https://www.facebook.com/p/Kilmore-Parish-Stonebridge-and-Mullavilly-100067210710073/
Note that there are at least 2 chapels in the parish but probably only the one combined set of baptism records, so unless the originals contain a note, it may be hard to determine which was the location for the 1899 baptism. It wasn't always the closest.
June,
Kilmore, Armagh - Catholic Parish Registers at the NLI
RootsIreland record shows his mother was married at St. Malachy, perhaps another source.
Church Of St Malachy - Armagh Parish
54 Irish St, Armagh BT61 7EP
Open · Closes 3 PM · More hours
| Date of Marriage: | 04-Nov-1908 | ||||
| Parish / District: | ARMAGH RC | County: | ARMAGH | ||
| Husband | Wife | ||||
| Name: | Joseph | Mitchell | Mary | Woods | |
| Address: | Lr English St Armagh | Liskeyborough Richhill Po | |||
| Denomination: | Civil Parish / District | Civil Parish / District | |||
| Occupation: | LABOURER | ||||
| Age: | Fa | Fa | |||
| Status: | Bachelor (Previously unmarried) | Spinster (Previously unmarried) | |||
| Husband's Father | Wife's Father | ||||
| Name: | Thomas | Mitchell | James | Woods | |
| Address: | |||||
| Denomination: | |||||
| Occupation: | ARMY PENSIONER | R I C PENSIONER | |||
| Husband's Mother | Wife's Mother | ||||
| Name: | Not Recorded | Not Recorded | |||
| Address: | |||||
| Denomination: | |||||
| Occupation: | |||||
| Witness 1 | Witness 2 | ||||
| Name: | Peter | Cullen | Clare | Kelly | |
| Address: | |||||
| Notes: | |||||
MARRIED IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH OF ST MALACHY ARMAGH ACCORDING TO THE RITES AND CEREMONIES OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH BY ME P SHEERIN C C/ DEAD [SPSE FTHR]/ [FA=FULL AGE]
Thank you for responding. I have emailed the Churches to see if they can help. If necessary we will fly over to Ireland and go from registry office to churches to find his baptismal certificate. I’m determined to find his certificate. Thanks again!
Here is an example of the Kilmore baptism register to show what it contains. This is from 1881 (the most recent year that is on-line). The church may let you photocopy the 1899 register, and may also provide you with a typed extract confirming the information (probably for a fee). They are unlikely to have any additional records beyond what you see in the register:
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632601?locale=en#page/93/mode/1up
I looked for a birth certificate for Charles but couldn’t see one, so possibly the birth wasn’t registered.
Thank you for for all your help. 🙏
For me to get a birth certificate for my grandfather I need to send in the following form.
Application For The Late Registration Of A Birth.
we have to do this as it looks like he was never registered.
With this form you need to send in the original baptismal certificate. ( Photocopy not acceptable, An original Baptismal certificate certificate will be available from the Church where baptised)
fingers crossed the church can find this record. 🤞
The strangest thing is… I can find a record of a child born to the same mother, same date of birth but… it’s a girl and not a boy.
Record says Ernestine born to Mary on the 15th of August 1898.
all very strange!
June,
Where did you get the August 15, 1898 birth date for Charles which you included in your previous message? He was baptized Sept. 3, 1899.
IrelandXO | Looking For Information On Charles Woods 1898
Mary
Afternoon,
Family members who unfortunately have passed away did the family tree. They have recorded this date of birth for Charles. I don’t know where they got it from.
I have asked the record office in Ireland and they looked several years before this date and several years after. They can’t find him at all.
On the census of 1901 he was 2 and on the census of 1911 he was 13, this is what I have.I was sent a copy of the baptismal record from an online search and others have matched him from that.
I have his marriage certificate and that states his age but not date of birth.
Charles Woods married Annie McLoughlin 14/ 10/1922 he was 24 and Annie was 22.
St Werburghs RC Church, Chester, uk
address 4 Charles St, Chester.
Maybe he didn’t have to show a birth certificate as he was a grown man
on the marriage certificate it states…
Father’s surname was James Woods ( deceased) Former Police constable. We believe James was his grandfather and all his life he was brought up thinking this OR was he so shamed at being illegitimate he put down James. We feel so sad for our grandfather and the more we look into this the more it makes me / us emotional. 🥲 June
Routine financial support for children really only started in 1948 with the creation of the NHS and the introduction of social security payments such as Child Allowance. So nowadays it’s rare for a birth not to be registered because you won’t get any money without a birth certificate. But in 1898 there was no such financial support, and so some births were never registered. Or if they were, it can be a year or two after the event. I saw one case in Belfast from the late 1800s where a mother registered 6 children all at the same time. The eldest was 17. So that birth is listed in the irishgenealogy version of the birth records 17 years after the actual year of birth. You would do well to find that if you didn’t know. (GRONI however, record them by year of birth not year of registration. So easier to search).
A birth certificate would not have been required when Charles married in 1922. Most information then was taken on trust. That also means that some of it may be wrong due to ignorance or to a white lie. People were sometimes embarrassed to put “unknown” against a father’s name and occupation so that information can be inaccurate.
Hi Elwyn,
I agree with everything you say…he’s a mystery!
One of his sons was a Deacon in the Church here in Chester although he’s now deceased. I have emailed the Church where Charles married and dropped in that we are related to Deacon Charles, I think they would know who I’m talking about as everyone knew the lovely Deacon.
I’ve asked if they could look at any register they may have of his wedding.. hope they reply!
I have emailed the Kilmore Parish in Ireland and I’m waiting for the Priest Fr Murphy. He is away until the beginning of March.. only knows what his in box is like when he looks at his emails. His response could take a while!
June
June
I found this record on Ancestry. Is this your Charles?
| Name | Charles Woods | |
| Gender | Male | |
| Marital Status | Married | |
| Birth Date | 15 Aug 1898 | |
| Residence Date | 1939 | |
| Address | 4 Charles St | |
| Residence Place | Chester, Cheshire, England | |
| Occupation | Upholsterer | |
| Line Number | 38 | |
| Schedule Number | 288 | |
| Sub Schedule Number | 1 | |
| Enumeration District | Lbbn | |
| Borough | Chester | |
| Registration District | 450/1/31 | |
| Inferred Spouse | Annie Woods | |
| Inferred Children | Josephine WoodsPatricia Woods | |
| Household Members (Name)GenderBirth Year | ||
| This record is officially closed. | ||
| This record is officially closed. | ||
| James McLoughlin | Male | 1892 |
| Charles Woods | Male | 1898 |
| Annie Woods | Female | 1900 |
| This record is officially closed. | ||
| Josephine Woods | Female | 1925 |
| This record is officially closed. | ||
| Patricia Woods | Female | 1929 |
| This record is officially closed. |
Mary,
Yes, that’s Charles!
It seems easy to find him here in the uk but before that it’s very sketchy.
what has been said down the generations is this…
He joined the army and gave the wrong age, he was around 15/16 ( they obviously didn’t check his age) He used his sister’s address in Ireland, maybe Belfast or Dublin. I’m unsure where he went to join up.
He ended up in Chester and met Annie.. the rest is history!
I’m trying to get his army records but need his death certificate As I can’t find one online at BDM Chester I’m going to drive to Chester and see if they can locate one.
I then can request his army records. I’m hoping that shows dates of birth, address, family members ect. I’m lucky I have his service ID number. 😄
June
June
Good wishes on your quest. You probably know there are 36 trees on Ancestry for Charles. Some identify different parent names.
Regards- Mary
I wonder if this is Mary's death record?? I think she also had a John in 1913. I previously provided his baptism record. Like Charles I did not find a civil Record.
| Name: | Mary Mitchell |
| Date of Death: | 1914 |
| Group Registration ID: | 3524880 |
| SR District/Reg Area: | Armagh |
| Deceased Age at Death: | 31 |
| View record image |
I think we are going by the marriage certificate of Charles in Chester. He has his father as James woods deceased police constable. Although we think he’s his grandfather.
That takes us to the trees on Ancestry. I have been going through the trees and seeing if they show anything different such as fathers / grandfathers name and employment. Most trees seem to be copies of our tree but I will again go through and see if we find another family with the same date of birth as Charles.
As always I am grateful for all your help. 🙏
As for Mary, if this is the correct family then yes that would be his mother.. she went on to marry a Mr Mitchell and have a child. He died before the birth of the child and she died a few years later.
June
one question please..
if I want to get the police service record of my great grandfather where would I start?
I have all his details even his service record identification number.
He was a Constable in The Royal Irish Constabulary appointed 7.6.1859 allocated to
Londonderry 12.10.1859
Cavan 1.10.1866
pensioned off in 5.12.1885
thanks 🙏
Try the RIC Forum. They may be able to help.
Some RIC records were sent to the National Archives in Kew, London but a lot were shredded around 1922 when it was disbanded. However if he was involved in anything significant there may be newspaper reports etc.,