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Charles McBride

TyroneArdstraw (Tyrone)

In my last post in 2016 I enqired about relatives of my husband's Grandfather, Samuel McBride, born 20.8.1881 in Carnkenny. His parents were Charles McBride [b 1852 Milltown, d 21.2.1886 Johnston, Renfrewshire] and Ann JaneSmiley, married 18.5.1874 in Strabane. Samuel's older siblings were Rebecca Jane b 9.5.1875 d 18.4.1890 Johnston, Renfrewshire, Scotland and Charles b 16.11.1879 Carkenny, d 13.10.1880 Carnkenny. The latter information was not known to me in my 2016 post. Samuel's mother remarried Samuel Millar but she died on 18.3.1893 in Johnston, Renfrewshire, Scotland.

At this stage Samuel was 12 years old. At age 18 he emigrated to Australia. We don't know anything about what happened during those 6 years. Would it have been common for a boy of that age to go out to find work or would it be likely that he may have been in an orphanage?

My other concern is with trying to track down details of Samuel's Grandfather, John McBride. Samuel's father Charles and his Uncle Samuel were apparently labourers on a farm owned by John Smiley. Both McBride brothers married Smiley sisters [Ann Jane and Sarah Jane]. A relative has named his Grandmother as Ann Aitcheson but I am not aware of certified proof of this. I find the connection with Renfrewshire, Scotland interesting. My husband'sGrandfather was Catlholic.

I would be most grateful for any assistance in searching for answers.

gmcbride1@bigp…

10 replies

Details of Charles McBride’s parents should be on his 1886 Scottish death certificate, which you can view on the Scotlandspeople site. In addition, the certificate should tell you whether they were alive at the time. (It will say “dcd” if dead. If that isn’t there, then you can infer they were alive. Scottish Registrar’s were pretty meticulous about that).

If you let me know what the certificate says about whether they were alive or dead, and what John McBride’s wife’s name was, I’ll then advise how to search for their deaths, though if they died before 1864, there won’t be any record. Death registration only started in Ireland in 1864.

You say that the McBride family was RC. Milltown is in the RC parish of Ardstraw West. Their baptism & marriage records only start in 1846. So assuming that’s where John McBride was born, there won’t be a record of it. But you might find his marriage if it was 1846 onwards.

You ask what happened to Samuel after his parents death until he left for Australia. An orphanage is one possibility. (The big orphanage near Johnstone was Quarrier's Homes. I think their records have survived. They might be in the Mithcell Library in Glasgow). Another possibility is that he was sent to stay with relatives. Typically an aunt or uncle or with his grandparents. 12 is a bit young to have started work full time. That was more likely when he was about 14 or 15.

You are curious as to why the family went to Scotland. Ireland lacks natural resources. No coal, oil, iron ore etc, and so apart from a modest amount of shipbuilding in Belfast and the Belfast linen mills (which mostly only employed women), it did not really get the industrial revolution that benefited England and Scotland where mills, steelworks, ship building, coal mining and all their support industries were major employers creating hundreds of thousands of new jobs. Much better paid than subsistence farming or weaving. Added to that you had the effects of a massive population explosion in Ireland – up from 3 million in 1750 to 8 million in 1841 (no-one is really sure of the reasons why but reduced neo-natal deaths seem to be a factor) and the famine. So some push factors and some pull factors saw huge numbers of people leave Ireland. Something like 8 million people emigrated from Ireland between 1801 & 1921.

https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/emigration-Ireland-19th-century.html

If you look at the Scottish censuses for the Glasgow area in the late 1800s, you will see that about every fifth person recorded there was born in Ireland. Scotland was a particularly popular place to go to work because it was easy and very cheap to get to. Several sailings every day from Belfast, plus regular sailings from Portrush, Ballycastle and Londonderry. The shipping companies main business was cargo and the passengers were just top-up revenue. Competition was fierce and passenger fares very low. People working in Scotland could come home for weddings or the harvest, as well as holidays (Glasgow used to shut down for 2 weeks every July, known as the Glasgow Fair holiday and there would then be a huge exodus to Ireland).  You could also send children back to stay with their grandparents, thereby leaving the wife free to work. You couldn’t do all those things so easily from Australia, America or Canada.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Thank you so much for all of this information Elwyn. It is very much appreciated. I'll get back to you if I get any more details.

Gail

gmcbride1@bigp…
Hi Gail, My first time on this site and not to quite sure how to use it. You may have already looked it the NSW BDM site and found this death and marriage. Google "NSW BDM" should find it. death MCBRIDE SAMUEL 26694/1962 CHARLES ANN JANE CASINO ie year 1962 marriage 10541/1906 MCBRIDE SAMUEL / POWER ANNIE MURWILLUMBAH ie year 1906 This was the only Samuel McBride death and marriage in NSW records for the period deaths1881-1980 and Marriage 1895-1940 so there is a good chance that it could be him. Casino and Murwillumbah are both in the Northern Rivers District of NSW close to the Queensland border. My own family of Thomas Allen (abt 1821 - probably 1893) and Eliza Jane Caldwell lived in Carnkenny and their son came to Brisbane some about 1865-1870. He married in Brisbane to Mary Ann Armstrong in Dec 1870. She was from Carrickmagrath near Ballybofey, Donegal. The place of Carnkenny was only 2 houses, both uninhabited I think, when I visited in 2008. They were in bad shape and may be gone now. So I am interested to know that there may have been more people in this place in the past. There are 2 Allen families in Australia that I know of that might be connected and they do both come from Carnkenny. Mason
Mason98
Hi Elwyn, Thank You for your post. I could not access the site for Thomas Allen's death, but did look at the censuses. I do have 2 dates for death of a Thomas Allen in Carnkenny. One in the 1850's and one for the 5th February 1893 from a will. His son, Robert Allen (abt 1843 -11 January 1877 Brisbane) came to Queensland, a number of possible Robert Allen's arriving between 1866 and 1870, he married in Brisbane on 24 December 1870 to Mary Ann Armstrong of Carrickmagrath, Ballybofey, Donegal. There doesn't seem to be any shipping records for them in 1870, perhaps washed away in Brisbane floods of that time, but they may have come out on the same ship that year. The other Allen family from Carnkenny James Hood Allen (abt 1816- 2 November 1903 Adelong, NSW) and Mary nee Rae (Wray, Wrae) came to Sydney, possibly 1856 on the Dundonald from Liverpool. They were married in Carnkenny or Ardstraw 20 August 1842. My info for my Robert Allen's father Thomas Allen and mother Jane Caldwell are from Queensland marriage records. We are trying to find the link between the 2 Allen families out here from Carnkenny. There are some strong likenesses between the 2 families. I looked at the 2 Allen censuses but at 1901 they are beyond the lifetime of the Thomas Allen and probably for James Hood Allen's father as well. I hope that the info I sent previously for Gail about the O'Brien's of Casino and Murwillumbah of NSW, are useful for her. This source also gives their Children, birth year and district. Mason
Mason98

Mason,

The link I gave is to the 1893 death. Death registration only started in Ireland in 1864 so you won’t find a death certificate for the 1850s event. Presbyterians generally didn’t keep burial records so the only other record might be a gravestone or newspaper notice.

In a small area like Carnkenny with only 32 houses, there’s a fair chance that folk of the same surname are related. Looking at Griffiths Valuation c 1860 the 2 Allen households were beside each other, so that points to them being closely related. Both farms were of almost the same size which suggests that possibly one larger farm had been split in half in the past. Perhaps between 2 brothers?

There were 2 farms there in 1834 in the tithes (Mrs Allen & Widow Allen).

http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/tyrone/tithe-applotment-books/parish-o…

Newspaper items: Londonderry Sentinel 27.8.1842 James H Allen of Carnkenny married Mary Rae, youngest daughter of the late Mathew Rae, innkeeper, Ardstraw.

Londonderry Standard 28.4.1841 23rd inst James Cummins, Scarvaherin, married Margaret Allen daughter of the late James Allen, Carnkenny.

Londonderry Sentinel 4.9.1841. 20th ult at Carnkenny. Edward Carson married Sarah Allen youngest daughter of late James Allen of same place.

Dublin Evening Packet of 23.8.1853 reported an attack on Thomas Allen and his wife at Carnkenny. He was described as a respectable farmer and was attacked by 6 men, 3 of whom were unknown to him. A neighbour came to intervene and the 6 then made a timely retreat.

Londonderry Standard 2.11.1867 Oct 26 at Cavendish Quay, Bandon Co Cork, Rev James C. Allen died, eldest son of Thomas Allen, Carnkenny, Ardstraw, Co Tyrone aged 25.

Londonderry Standard 21.8.1872 reported death on May 4th 1872 of Rev Charles Allen, Congregational Minister, Ulladulla, 2nd son of Thomas Allen of Carnkenny. (Presumably you already have that).

Londonderry Standard 20.7.1882. July 16th Marriage of Alexander A Cummins only son of the late James Cummins of Church Hill Farm near Castlederg to Rachel S. Alexander, only child of the late Nathaniel Hoods Allen of Carnkenny & Crew.

The Registry of Deeds records start in 1709 and are on Familysearch. You could search them (using Carnkenny townland) to see if there are any leases or other documents registered there relating to the Allen family.  If you get a 3 lives lease or similar it often explains how the parties were related.  Might be worth checking the Abercorn papers (they owned most of the land in that area) to see if there are any documents relating to your family. The e-catalogue is on-line on the PRONI website.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer
Hi Elwyn, Thank You for your info on Thomas Allen and Charles. I did not have the record of Charles Allen in NSW d: 1872. He was the Congregational Rev in Ulladulla as stated in the Londonderry Sentinel and died in Sydney at the home of Alderman Goold who became Mayor in 1874. That now gives 3 possibly related Allens who came to Australia In the Sydney paper of 1872 Rev Charles Allen is said to have had no relatives in the colony. However by then NSW, Victoria and Queensland were all separate colonies. As Charles is now the second son of Thomas then my Robert will be either 3rd or 4 son and his birth push forward to 1845-1848 in Carnkenny. I was also able to get to the site you gave for the death of Thomas Allen 1893 Carnkenny. This indicates that his birth was 1820-1821. Finding Thomas Allen's parents with the Irish record system is probably a mission impossible but this extra info helps fill in the family a bit more. Thanks. Mason
Mason98
Most Irish research comes to a stop around 1800 due to the lack of records. You might get a little more from church records if you know which church they attended. The records may well not be on-line so you would need a researcher to look them up in PRONI.
Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Hi Elwyn.

Sorry for the very long delay since my last post. I have discovered that Samuel McBride's sister Rebecca, father Charles, Mother Ann Jane and his stepfather Samuel Millar all died in from TB [or phthisis] in Johnstone, Renfrewshire, Scotland. I found records of Charles McBride being admitted to a facility [from memory Quarriers] by his wife Ann Jane McBride. As Samuel was only 12 at the time I'm assuming he may have gone to the Quarriers home for orphan children. Samuel's Uncle Samuel and Aunt Ann Jane Beattie had both emigrated to Australia and New Zealand respectively. I'm in the process of trying to find Quarriers records to test this assumption.

Gail

gmcbride1@bigp…

Gail,

 

Let me know what you learn from the Quarriers records. Happy to help if I can.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

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