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Can anyone assist me to uncover my paternal ARMSTRONG / HOGAN ancestry in 'Tipperary Ireland'?

Tipperary

Hi,

I’ve hit the proverbial ‘brick wall’ on my paternal GGrandfather:

     John Patrick ARMSTRONG (b. calc.1845 'Tipperary Ireland'; d. 14 Oct. 1892 Sydney, Australia).

On JP’s Death Certificate (1982, Sydney Australia) JP's age is listed as 47years (hence, 1845 is his calculated birth date).  JP is listed as having been born in ‘Tipperary Ireland’ (no place or Parish is listed) and as having spent 14 years in Australia, suggesting that JP emigrated to Australia from Ireland in 1878 – however, I have not located any passenger records confirming this date. 

On IP’s Death Certificate his father, John ARMSTRONG (my GGGrandfather), is listed as a farmer and deceased, and his mother, is listed as Julia HOGAN (my GGGrandmother) - Julia is presumed to be still living in October 1892. 

JP’s Death Certificate information provides the following information on my great grandparents:

     John ARMSTRONG (b. bef. 1845; d. bef. Oct. 1892) and Julia HOGAN (b. bef 1845; d. aft. Oct. 1892)

Other than JP’s Death Certificate record, I have no other information on my paternal ARMSTRONG / HOGAN ancestry in Ireland.

I would appreciate receiving any information that might inform my paternal Irish ancestry.

Jim
Perth, Western Australia

jimaarmstrong@…

7 replies

Jim:

Maybe one of our Co. Tipperary experts will have more success but I have not been able to locate the baptismal record for John Patrick Armstrong using the parents names you provided. I searched on two different subscription sites-- Roots Ireland and FindMyPast.

I looked at the 1850 Griffiths Valuation head of household listing for Co. Tipperary and there were only three John Armstrongs listed. We don't know if John Sr. was leasing land or was even alive in 1850. Of the three record I located, two were in towns (Nenagh and Borrisokane) and the third was in the townland of Killea in the civil parish of Killea. So of the three records, the Killea record is the best lead. There were no Julia Armstrong records in the Griffiths for Co. Tipperary. 

I also looked for a Julia Armstrong death record in Co. Tipperary from 1864-1900 but the only record was an infant.

Have you considered DNA testing.

Roger McDonnell

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

JIm:

I forgot to ask the religious denomination for the Armstrongs-- Roman Catholic or Church of Ireland?

Roger

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Thanks so much Roger for your response and your research.

My ARMSTRONGs are Roman Catholic - my maternal HARNEYs (Tipperary / Ballyneale) are too.

Yes, I and my 2 sisters have done our DNA (atDNA; BigY-DNA and mtDNA) but no matches yet that precise my JP ARMSTRONG line.  I'm still awaiting my Y-700 results but my Y-111 marker has me as L226, which I'm told suggests that: 

Armstrong boys were living in County Clare as of 1,000 years ago.  All guys under L226 belongs to a tribe called Dal gCais (or dalcassian), located in County Clare.  Brian Boru, one of the great High King in Ireland, was either our brother or first-cousin to our male ancestors.  We are connected to a King Cas who died around AD 250.  In a way, our Dal gCais had been living in County Clare for more than 1500 years.  I guess our family didn’t go out much!  So the answer your question is yes and no. Yes, we were in County Clare (Thomond) as of 1,000 years ago and more.

Interestingly, my Y-111 marker matches 11 persons, none with surname ARMSTRONG, but a couple of HOGANs from Nenang! 

I will concentrate now on the Killea area - thanks for this suggestion.

Kind regards

Jim Armstrong

jimaarmstrong@…

Hi, I have been looking at a tree in Ancestry.......says.....John died in Ireland in 1892 and I see Julia died in Australia in 1866, is this correct?

Margot

 

Margot Secrette

Hi Margot

Thanks for your message.

My paternal GGrandfather, John Patrick ARMSTRONG (b. calc.1845 'Tipperary Ireland'; d. 14 Oct. 1892 Sydney, Australia).  On JP’s Death Certificate his father, John ARMSTRONG (my GGGrandfather), is listed as a farmer and deceased, and his mother, is listed as Julia HOGAN (my GGGrandmother) - Julia is presumed to be still living in October 1892. 

So, the information you have on John ARMSTRONG is not correct for either of my John ARMSTRONGs nor for my Julia HOGAN/ARMSTRONG as she is presumed to be alive in October 1892 and living in 'Tipperary Ireland' at that time.

I know of 4x public trees in ANCESTRY that have the incorrect information that you refer to - these mistakes were presented in 'Gailrobyn's' 'Christopher/Dewbery and beyond' public tree and the other 3x trees appear to have copied this misinformation into their trees?

Kind regards

Jim Armstrong

jimaarmstrong@…

Hi, I have used several sites and books to find a link with John Armstrong and Julis Hogan, sorry no results, only the trees in Ancestry.
You say you cannot confirm his travel to Australia, can you access TROVE the Australia ship records.
Like Roger I see the John In Killea  which is a townland/parish in the Parish of Templemore.
Holycross was another area where Armstrongs lived, still no match tp the parents.
I am not in RootsIreland now so I cannot look there, sorry.
 

Margot Secrette

Hi Margot

I will follow up your suggestion regarding accessing TROVE for any relevant Australian ship records for John Patrick ARMSTRONG's arrival in Australia.

Unfortunately, RootsIreland have records for Tipperary (North) only but I will search there to see if I can locate the family there. 

Thanks again for your interest and support.

Jim Armstrong

jimaarmstrong@…

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