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Can any sleuths comment if I'm on the right track?

Hello, I'm looking for some advice or opinions from the professionals to see if my research/theory/reasoning is going down the correct path...  I've been trying to get through the brick wall that is my G-Grandfather and some of the paperwork I have on him is conflicting...  So I hope I'm not tracing two different men.  Death Cert (USA) lists his name as Walter Cummings (Cummins), born in Ireland 26 June 1871, married to Helena Williams in England, parents listed as Patrick and Bridget "Quinlan," data reported by his wife Helena.  Marriage Cert (from England) lists Walter and Helena, his father listed as "William," born in Ireland 1865; residence at marriage was on the HMS Hotspur (he was enlisted).  Naval Record (from England) lists his name as William (not Walter), born 26 June 1865 in Ireland.  Irish Civil Records (births); I found a single couple named Patrick and Bridget Quinlan (the names given by his wife on his death cert) submitting a birth of an un-named male 25 Sept 1865 in the Roscrea/Shinrone District in County Offaly (Kings).  The birthday is listed as 21 Sept 1865; residents of Derry Township.  And unless "Derry" is short for some of the lengthier townships that start with "Derry," the closest Derry I was able to find was in Tipperary about 21km from Shinrone; it also looks to be the size of a postage-stamp.  I believe this is my G-Grandfather, but this is where the trail goes a bit ragged...  I started looking through Catholic Baptismal records and found a record (Shinrone Diocese) of a "Patrick" Cummins baptized a week later (1 Oct 1865) with the parents Patrick and Bridget "Cullinan," also from Derry (!?!).  Further searches have not found Patrick and Bridget "Quinlan" mentioned again.  However, there are several more Civil Records (birth) and Catholic baptism records that mention Patrick and Bridget "Cullinan."  So far I've found ten other children besides "my" Patrick.  The residences listed for subsequent children are also in townships that are all relatively close (Derry, Carrig, and Ballingary) in northern Tipperary.  So, could Quinlan be a corruption of Cullinan?  

 

Just a recap:

 

Death Cert:  Walter Cummings (b. 26 June 1871 Ireland)  Married to Helena.  Parents: Patrick Cummings, Bridget Quinlan (both b. Ireland)

 

Marriange Cert: Walter Cummins and Helena Williams (18 Dec 1890, Harwich, England).  Born 1865.  Residence:  HMS Hotspur.    Father: WILLIAM

 

Naval Record:  William Cumings (b. 26 June 1865 Ireland).  Stoker on HMS Hotspur during the time of marriage.

 

So, I'm seeing a guy baptized as Patrick with a name change to William then Walter...if this is my G-Grandfather, who also reported "William" as his father on his marriage cert.  I should also add that I've checked out the surrounding Civil districts to Shinrone/Roscrea, and have also looked through the Baptismal records of the surrounding dioceses from 1855-1875 and there's no record I can find of any Patrick Cummins/Bridget QUINLAN'S.  As well, I was unable to find a civil birth registration for Patrick Cummins and Bridget Cullinan for the birth of the Patrick that was baptized...which leads me to believe these are one in the same family.  But the name changes are throwing me for a loop.  Any help/guidance/opinions would be appreciated!

 

Thanks, Matt

mtkelty@gmail.com

4 replies

Hello,

Thanks for the recap at the bottom - always good to put the known data together :)

People lied about their age to get jobs and record keeping was not always accurate, they even told lies about their age when getting married to seem older or younger. One way around this is to use as much data as possible to calculate the birth - is 1865 correct is the question

The death cert would give an age? In Ireland for older people it was only necessary at first to get within five years but at least you have a number to work with?

Between 1860 and 1870 there were 52 William Cummings born in the whole of Ireland (32 counties) according to the State Records of Ireland (these begin in 1864.   

irishgenealogy.ie

Next, your man will be documented in census data somewhere - in Ireland there is only the 1901 and 1911 census available but in England there will many more for the time period, again ages will be given If he was on a ship the name might be abbreviated to capital letters.

If he was enlisted in the Royal Navy there will be no end of documents but they may not be online that might help identify full names - when given two names the first was usually confusing because there would be so many others with the same name. It also allowed individuals to choose which name they were known by. Most Irish people would not have or carry a birth cert.

Then if you are not sure or want to check out a record, you can also search for known or possible brothers and sisters? Other people with the same surnames

Hope this strategy of going around the problem helps.

Shay

Seamus Crowe, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

 

Hi Shay, thanks for the response!  I've found quite a few documents (1 English Census, 5 US Censuses).  And it seems for all the documents he was primarily involved with, his birth year is 1865 (Naval Record, Marriage Cert, British Census).  His birth year according to other documents varies between 1864-1871, and those were primarily filled out by his wife, or another household member (speaking about the US censuses).  As far as the Royal Navy, I've only been able to obtain his service record which lists his name, birthday, birth place (generalized to "Ireland), the year he signed up, a general physical description, ships he served on, etc...  As well as when he went AWOL (he went AWOL in Halifax, Nova Scotia).  He then made his way across the US border and met up with his wife and her family in upstate New York.  I suppose my biggest hangup is the discrepancy between him naming his father as "William" on his marriage cert, and his wife naming his parents as Patrick and Bridget on his Death cert.  Perhaps I'm missing a key piece, or maybe he was on the run, or something entirely different...    I just don't see a motive for his wife to lie/mislead a coroner as to who his parents were.   And if Quinlan is a corruption of the name Cullinan, it's pretty lucky that someone else made the same mistake at his birth, and that's if he is actually "Patrick."  Time to start on the siblings...

Thanks again!

Matt

mtkelty@gmail.com

Hi Margot, that's mostly the point to the "residence" question.  The civil record lists "Derry" and the baptism also lists "Derry."  So in the immediate area of Shinrone is Glasderry Beg, Glasderry More, and Derrymacedmond.  So has anyone run into situations where a townland has a nickname or a short-hand reference like that?  Again, the only townland that is plain "Derry" is abt 21km to the northwest of Shinrone; which seems like a bit of an outlier to the other residences, but not outside the realm of believability...

Matt

mtkelty@gmail.com

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