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Assistance with Marriage Record and Geography

My apologies, I am (1) geographically challenged and (2) dealing with some conflicting reports / stories.

So, I am going back to this source document.

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1845/09295/5365079.pdf

First entry on the page is a marriage:

  • 23 Sep 1845.
  • John Ross & Elizabeth Dean
  • He is of full age and she is 20 y/o?
  • He is a bachelor, and farmer, while she a spinster (term of the time for never married lady)

After this is where I need more assistance.

  • I may be reading things wrong.
  • Residences? I think she is living somewhere in County Longford, While he was living in a village (Ballydrum) in County Mayo?
  • Why County Mayo for him? Because his father is a Clerk of the church of Louisbough, which is in County Mayo?

Sorry, but there were reports of him (John Ross) being from Scotland. But the peeps in my Scotland group, said Uhm no - the marriage record suggests Ireland. They said maybe he was born in Scotland and his parents moved to County Mayo, Ireland. But I needed to dig in more, because this does not point to Scotland.

Help Please! :)

jmossing

6 replies

jmossing:

Ballydrum is a townland in Killashee civil parish in southwest Co. Longford. Ballinamore is a townland in the civil parish of Ballymacormick just to the east of Killashee. The marriage was held in the Parish Church of Ballymacormick which was the bride's parish.

The father of John Ross was a clerk in Lanesborough which is in Rathcline civil parish southwest of Killashee civil parish.

I don't see any Co. Mayo connection.

Roger McDonnell

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

James Ross is listed in the 1835 tithes as farming in Ballydrum:

https://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004625671/004625671_00231.pdf

There’s a possible death registered in Longford in 1866 aged 88. You would need to order the certificate to see if it is the right man.

The Ross family may have originated in Scotland but they are likely to have moved to Ireland in the 1600s. By the 1700s and 1800s, for a variety of economic and political reasons, farmers in Longford were leaving Ireland rather than arriving.

Arthur Dean is described in the marriage certificate as “pensioner.” That normally points to his having served in the army or navy. So he might have some military records you could locate.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

To clarify did the family move to McClean, Illinois?

Records from Ancestry

NameHelen R. Hall[Helen R. Ross]
Birth Date15 Sep 1846
Birth PlaceLongford Co , Ireland
Death Date21 Mar 1928
Death PlaceBloomington, McLean, Illinois
Burial Date24 Mar 1928
Burial PlaceBloomington, McLean, Ill.
Cemetery NameBloomington
Death Age81
OccupationAt Home
RaceWhite
Marital StatusW
GenderFemale
Street Address402 E. Beecher St.
Father NameJohn Ross
Father Birth PlaceRosshill, Scotland
Mother NameElizabeth Dean
Mother Birth PlaceLonghill Co., Ireland
Spouse NameSamuel Hall
CommentsMrs.
FHL Film Number1614418

@@@@@@@@@@@

NameHelen Hall
Maiden NameRoss
GenderFemale
Birth Date15 Sep 1846
Birth PlaceLongford, County Longford, Ireland
Death Date21 Mar 1928
Death PlaceBloomington, McLean County, Illinois, United States of America
CemeteryEvergreen Memorial Cemetery
Burial or Cremation PlaceBloomington, McLean County, Illinois, United States of America
Has Bio?Y
FatherJohn Ross
MotherElizabeth Ross
SpouseSamuel Hall
ChildrenMarguerite Emily ConroyCarrie R. SalzmanSara Helen ForsythMaud Agnes KelloggHelen L. HallCharles Samuel HallArthur George HallAnna Jane KohlerMary Victoria SmithEva Belle StubblefieldCharlotte ThompsonJohn Ross HallElizabeth Mary Deane
URLhttps://www.findagrave.com/memorial/60710465/helen-hall

@@@@@@@@@@@

NameHelen Ross
GenderFemale
Marriage Date21 Aug 1868
Marriage PlaceKilcommick, Longford, Ireland
FatherJohn Ross
SpouseSamuel Hall
FHL Film Number101532
Reference IDp15 ln52

@@@@@@@@@@@

NameHelen Ross
Date of Registration1868
Registration DistrictBallymahon, Ireland
Volume13
Page number15
FHL Film Number101250
Records on Page (Name)
Samuel Hall
Helen Ross

@@

mtvrdk@gmail.com

Per a tree on Ancestry

Arthur Dean married Mary Holmes. Elizabeth (1822) was their first child. He died in Ireland sometime after 1849 when their last child Sydney was born. Mary went to Bloomington, McLean, Illinois with several of her children in 1867. She died there in 1872.

mtvrdk@gmail.com

I know this doesn't help and you probably researched. I understand why you're confused. I checked six of John Ross and Elizabeth Deans' children's death records and 1900 censuses. Some had John from Scotland and other records showed Ireland. I found some changed Scotland to Ireland in 1920.

mtvrdk@gmail.com

Thank you everyone for your help.

MaryTV,

Yes I think that ancestry tree you were looking at was mine. :) Actually, my sister in law's that started it and I am picking it up now. Regarding the references to Ireland and Scotland, same holds true for their death certs. So, yes unclear.

Roger,

Yes, that all makes sense and I was reviewing it to make sure I was following. I agree with your assessment. Thank you!

Elwyn,

Yes, that is James' death record. Family Search has the record indexed as well, only they captured that James' death was reported by his son-in-law William Armstrong. So I looked up William's marriage record, and he was married to a Hannah Ross, from Ballydrum, Co. Longford, father was James Ross, and had the same occupation as John's father. Making Hannah John's sister. So made some progress there. Thanks!

Regarding Arthur Dean father to Elizabeth. Someone wrote a biography of their daughter, Helen.

Helen Ross’s grandfather, Arthur Dean, was an officer in the Black Horse Regiment of the English Army under Wellington in the Napoleonic Wars. She was also descended from men who fought for William the Orange of England. Helen’s families were immensely proud of their English ancestry and were also members of the Episcopal Church.

I have some more research to do on the Dean family.

Irish research is slow and takes time. So I dig in a little bit at a time.

Thank you everyone!

jmossing

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