Adelaide and Georgina Carey

Bob,

If you click here: 

https://www.limerickcity.ie/Library/LocalStudies/Obituariesdeathnotices…

you will see a death notice for Adelaide Carey. She died in NYC in 1895 at age 18.

Patricia,

Thanks! Her age, mother's last name and Manhattan (NYC) address all line up. Address was same as on other Carey records. Her sister, Josephine, was living there when she married in 1897. Did a check of deaths in Manhattan for 1895 on the historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov site but received "no records" found note. The site informs inquirer that Manhattan death records for that and surrounding years are "not digitized". Will have to come up with a "work-around". May have to request record via US Mail. 

Bob Carey

Bob,

On a hunch I searched for Adelaide under her stepfather's name. Here goes:

 

Name Adelaide Martel

Sex      Female

Age     18

Residence Place       New York, New York Co., New York

Burial Date    10 Dec 1895

Birth Year (Estimated)        1877

Birthplace      Ireland

Marital Status           Single

Race    White

Father's Name          John Martel

Father's Sex   Male

Father's Birthplace  Ire

Mother's Name        Margaret

Mother's Sex Female

Mother's Birthplace Ire

Event Type    Death

Event Date    9 Dec 1895

Event Place   Manhattan, New York County, New York, United States

Event Place (Original)        Manhattan, New York, New York, United States

Certificate Number cn 41129

Note   Bellevue Hosp.

"New York, New York City Municipal Deaths, 1795-1949", database, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W6J-TFS : 3 June 2020), Adelaide Martel, 1895.

The actual certificate is not available on the site you mentioned.  You'd have to order it from the NY Municipal Archives.

Patricia, 

Thanks for the death record on Adelaide Martel. Some of the details are consistent with the Limerick Chronicle article that you sent earlier.

My past searches came across a 1894 NYC newspaper article referencing a Margaret Mortell and daughter living at the 120 E 41st St address. As Margaret and Mike Mortell produced no children, this daughter was most likely Josephine or Adelaide Carey. When Adelaide died at the 120 E 41st St location, Margaret was on hand and could have provided the recorder with "Michael as the father" and "Carey as the surname". Unable to explain these differences in past discoveries, I have put these records aside looking for a better fit document. Can you offer and explanation why John and Martel was used?

Patricia, 

Thanks for the death record on Adelaide Martel. Some of the details are consistent with the Limerick Chronicle article that you sent earlier.

My past searches came across a 1894 NYC newspaper article referencing a Margaret Martell and daughter living at the 120 E 41st St address. As Margaret and Mike Mortell produced no children, this daughter was most likely Josephine or Adelaide Carey. When Adelaide died at the 120 E 41st St location, Margaret was on hand and most likely would have provided the recorder with "Michael as the father" and "Carey as the surname". Unable to explain these differences in my past discoveries, I have put these records aside looking for a better fit document. Although a NYC documentation issue, perhaps you have an explanation why John and Martel was used?

Bob Carey

Bob, I wouldn't discount this death record.  I'm sure it's the Adelaide mentioned in the Limerick Chronicle--your Adelaide Carey.

Death records are notoriously incorrect. Sometimes I think the date and the fact that the person is dead are the only correct bits of info!  Adelaide did not give the information for her death certificate.  Someone else did.

The actual cert would probably indicate who gave the info.  That person may have been grieving, confused, upset.  That person may not have known the correct information.  Or the person writing it all down may have erred.

Why didn't it say Carey?  Who knows. It is  possible that Adelaide used the name of her stepfather.  

I hope this helps.

 

Patricia,

Thanks for the research on Adelaide and for providing your analysis and recommendations. Most of the dates, ages, places and names on the Limerick Chronicle and Death Cert 41129 lineup. My  thinking was there might have been an Irish custom in play back then to explain the differences. Am in the process of ordering Cert 41129. Lord knows how long it will take NYC to respond. In the meantime, will be searching for Georgina’s final journey.

 

Bob Carey

Hi Bob, I recently ordered two death certs on a Monday from the NYC archives--and got them on the Friday. I hope you have similar service. Let us know what you find out.

Patricia,

 

Good to hear of your recent success with NYC Archives. Have not used the Archives in many years. Can you send me the link that you used for the NYC Archive request? Will the NYC archives send an electronic (scanned) copy of the death certificate instead of a hard copy?

 

Bob Carey

Patricia,

Death cert for Adelaide attached. Based on my deciphering and medical expertise, cert suggests autopsy determined that she died of peritonitis caused by stomach ulcers (9 total!!). At age 18, she had many ulcers. Looks like she's buried in Calvary where other relatives are laid to rest. Cert did not list any more info than what you sent. Thanks again for your support on this. 

Bob Carey 

2FFADELAIDEDEATHCERT9DEC1895.pdf

Bob, glad you got the certificate and that you didn't have to wait months.  The certificate notes that an inquest is pending.  Here's some info about an inquest:

https://www.archives.nyc/blog/2021/6/24/beyond-the-basics

You can order the record from the Municipal Archives or the Medical Examiner--not sure actually--but info would be online.

Did you get the burial list from Calvary? Finding out who is in the plot might help with your research.

 

Good luck!

 

Patricia,

Per the 41129 Death Cert, O'Meaghan (Coroner), ordered the inquest and O'Handon (MD and Medical Attendant at Inquest) wrote a short Inquest summary. What additional benefit were you thinking might be derived from having a copy the Inquest clinical details (Coroner's Report prior to 1918)?  As I understand it, for Manhattan prior to 1918, reports are micro film and not online. 

Bob Carey

The inquest records might have more information--who found her, physical findings, etc.  I can't tell you if it would be any benefit--I only know that if you were my client I would definitely recommend getting the information, as you never know what it might have to offer.

Patricia, 

Thanks again for your incite and advice on how to proceed. Will be working with a 2nd cousin in NYC to inquire within DORIS and Calvary Cemetery. With your help, it seems Adelaide's final journey has been found. Just need to write the final story.  

Have a great summer!

Bob Carey

You too!

Thanks to the Message Board the final journey of Adelaide Carey has been found. Now the need is to find the final journey of Georgina, her twin sister. 

The irishgenealogy.ie birth record shows Georgina being born five minutes after Adelaide, on 1JUL1877. No information after that has been found on this woman.

The birth record shows an unreadable note in the margin next to the entry line #213,  "_ _ _  _ying".  Could this note be "_ _ _  dying"? Perhaps Georgina made it through birth but by the time the birth document was filled out she had suddenly passed away. A copy of this birth record was requested from GRO but the copy received last week did not include the margin note. 

Any suggestions on getting a copy of that margin note or finding Georgina's final journey?

Bob Carey 

Hello Bob,

Not sure if you located Georgina's baptismal record..a transcription is at RootsIreland:

 

Georgiana Carey

Birth:01-Jul-1877

Date of Baptism:?

Parish/District: ST. MICHAEL'S, Co. Limerick

Father: Michael Carey

 Mother: Margaret Burns [s/b Durney]

 

 

 

Patricia, thanks for the response.

Am not familiar with RootsIreland. Have used NLI, IrishGenealogy, Ancestry, FamilySearch and information I received twenty years ago from contracted genealogists at the old Limerick Archives and Limerick Ancestry in The Granary on Michael Street. Back then the search objective was Michael J. Carey and family. Baptismal records were not available and the archives was shutdown. Seems these records have since been uploaded to the Limerick Genealogy site, part of RootsIreland. Am investigating this site and membership. 

As a final note, if as you say, there is a baptismal record, that then would indicate that Georgina survived birth; the birth record marginal  note is not about "dying"; and, that there are possibly marriage and death documents out there that need to be found. 

Bob Carey

Patricia,

Did some investigating of the RootsIreland capability, specifically the Limerick Genealogy site. The Limerick site has both civil birth and parish baptismal records for 1877. For the twins, they show two "birth/baptismal" records for Adelaide but only one for Georgina. That seems to say that Adelaide has both a civil birth record and a parish baptismal record but Georgina has only a civil birth record. As noted before, IrishGenealogy has civil birth records for both Adelaide and Georgina.  This appears to say that Georgina did not live to be baptized with her twin sister, Adelaide. Perhaps that note in the civil birth record margin recorded that sad ending. Could be that we have backed into the answer as what was Georgina's final journey. How does this look to you?

Bob Carey

Hi Bob,

Yes, Georgina survived her birth and was baptized.  Did she die soon after? Did she live to get married? Did she use a different surname, as Adelaide did? Lots of work ahead!  Good luck and let us know what you find.

Patricia,

Researched RootsIreland for capabilities and records for Adelaide and Georgina. RootsIreland's Limerick Genealogy has civil birth and parish baptismal records for 1877. A search for Adelaide and Georgina finds two "birth/baptismal" records for Adelaide but only one for Georgina. As reported (per IrishGenealogy) earlier, the twins are both listed on the civil birth record. As such, the second "birth/baptismal" record for Adelaide must be her parish baptismal record. For Georgina there is no second record (ie: no baptism). This seems to indicate that Georgina may have been "stillborn" or sadly died shortly after birth. Perhaps the note in the margin of the civil birth record is an indicator of this. How does this look to you?

Bob Carey

Bob, Apologies! I thought I had sent you the baptismal record.

 

Just checked on another baptismal record for this family and noticed that Josephine Carey's godfather was Michael Mortell. Not sure you knew that.

As for Georgiana, it is possible she died shortly after birth.  Not sure why there was no death record for her though.

Patricia,

Thanks for the follow-up. Let me answer some questions and hopefully clear some things up. 

I knew of Josephine's baptism and Mike Mortell being the godfather. Can only speculate that Mike and Mike were business partners (accountants?). At this point in time, Mortell's first wife, Mary Sheehy, was still living but dies later in the year. Seven years later, he marries Margaret after Mike Carey dies in MAR1884.  

As for Georgina, she was not on the MAR1884, HMS Baltic manifest for emigration into NYC with her parents and four siblings. Also, she was not enumerated in the 1891 UK census with Josephine and Adelaide in the Monks Kirby school, England. She had to have died between JUL1877 and MAR1884. With no civil death records, it seems that she most likely died at birth. Could it be that the civil officials got ahead of themselves with recordkeeping when in fact by definition what happened to Georgina was not a "birth"? If the child lived for a time (hour?), seems there should have been a death certificate. Not my area of expertise, just an educated guess. 

Did not see a baptismal record attached. Was it attached to the recent posting?

Take care!

Bob Carey

 

 

Patricia,

Searched the civil death records for “Georgina Carey”, “Georgina” and “Carey” for the time period 1877 – 1884, all of Ireland and found no relevant record. Searched Limerick civil birth and death records in that period for information entered and margin notes. Death entries seemed to be based either on informant inputs or a coroner’s deposition. Death entries were not in chronological order and the “registering” for some entries lagged the death by months.  Found that infant (zero age) deaths could be matched with their birth record and that a death record could be created for a death that occurred just minutes after the birth. Found the margin note written by Georgina’s birth registrar, Jonathan Elmes, to be “Error in Copying”. Seems he started to enter the wrong address for the informant, corrected it and noted that. He used this same margin note for other births and deaths. Found other entries that were cancelled and the registrar’s margin notes stated … “over three months”, … “not qualified”, … “rejected for statutory” … and even …“birth started as a death”...   These notes suggest that the death details from the informant or corner had to pass the system’s first level of evaluation (registrar) before being “logged in” and then a subsequent review conducted by the superintendent registrar, C Monk Wilson, before final acceptance (or a rejection strike-out) into the record (“registering”).  Could it be that Georgina’s death did not pass the first level of system review due to a technicality (ex: death occurred more than 3 months before) and as such the death was never “logged in”? Knowing this, am wondering if there are any Limerick cemetery records available for that same time period which could possibly help define Georgina’s final journey. Her mother was buried (1914) in St. Lawrence Cemetery and her older sister, Josephine, buried next to mother (1938). If not, the findings collected so far suggests that Georgina’s death occurred in Limerick, on Catherine Street sometime between 1877 and 1884. Would be interested in seeing your suggestion for future search options.

Bob Carey    

Hello Patricia,

Georgina Carey was baptized in ST. Michael’s Church and her mother, sister and brother-in-law were buried in Mount St. Lawrence Cemetery. mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;color:#222222">Searched Mount St. Lawrence Cemetery Register and St. Michael Graveyard online sites starting with her birth month until the family boarded the HMS Baltic for NYC in March of 1884. but did not find her burial record.  As it is, the Irish record system finds Georgina's birth on Catherine St, Limerick; family living there until 1881 (birth of Michael); then in 1884, she is not listed with the family on the HMS Baltic manifest. Additionally, there is no other system entry for Georgina Carey in census, marriage and death records out to 1960. Could it be that the family moved elsewhere in Ireland between MAR1881 and MAR1884 and, as such, the death/burial search needs to be focused on that new location, but then, what location?  Any suggestions on search strategies in Ireland going forward would be appreciated.

Bob Carey